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18 August 2011 @ 06:55 pm
I have come to a conclusion!  
And that conclusion is that Ginjo and Tsukishima are idiots.

So basically the last two chapters have made me realise that Ginjo and Tsukishima's plan never had a chance of succeeding in any meaningful sense. Ginjo has on occasion been compared to Aizen in terms of manipulative ability but personally I think that Aizen would be offended by the comparison and consider Ginjo to be nothing more than a rank amateur and that would be if he was feeling generous. Even in terms of emotional manipulation, the one area where Ginjo has much in the way of talent, he still doesn't measure up. Tsukishima is right when he says that Ginjo can't act because his inner asshole keeps leaking out, even when he's trying to be friendly.

But that's not why they're idiots. The reason they are idiots is for even targeting Karakura-cho in the first place. The moment that realised that Urahara was in town they should have just cut their losses, packed up shopped and got the hell out of Dodge. Even if they decided that attacking someone like Chad or Orihime was worth the risk and they could get away before anyone realised they had done the moment they set their sights on Ichigo they might have just as well have committed suicide.

The reason I say this is because they knew that Isshin had ties to Soul Society and so did Urahara. Even if they didn't realise they were dealing with two former captains (technically three but one can be forgiven for not realising about Tessai) they still knew that Soul Society was still monitoring Karakura-cho in someway and that one of the one's doing so was the father of their target. And that point the first thing they should have done was try and find out exactly what connection Urahara and Isshin had to Soul Society. Especially when they realised that Ichigo was a former Substitute Shinigami.

If they did not do so, that was a really dumb move. Not knowing what sort of attention Soul Society had on Karakura-cho means they ran the risk of drawing unwanted attention to what they were doing and going by Ginjo's personality I don't think he came by the Substitute Shinigami badge honestly, meaning there's a high chance he was already wanted by them. If they did do the research and found out that they were dealing with two ex-captains... well that was even dumber. Its already quite clear that Captain-level shinigami outclass fullbringers by a large margin and they were messing with the son of one. Even if they had succeeded in stealing Ichigo's power for whatever reason Isshin would have come after them and dismantled them down to the ground and that's the least of the problems they would have brought upon themselves. As it is they've brought five captains (past and present) two other bankai capable shinigami who are not yet captains and a pissed of Lieutenant, and Ichigo back at something approaching his old power levels. And that's assuming Yoruichi and Tessai aren't hanging around somewhere just offscreen waiting to contribute.

Since Ginjo was clearly unprepared for anything like this to happen I can only assume that he is suicidally overconfident in his planning ability and a stunning example of the Dunning-Krueger effect in action. And Tsukishima is just as big an idiot for going along with this. 

So your opinions?
Current Mood: contemplativeintellectual
balladbirdballadbird on August 18th, 2011 09:07 am (UTC)
Well, Ginjou has a substitute shinigami badge all his own, meaning if he's not one himself, he's successfully murdered one in the past. As such the S.S. as an organization probably didn't scare him much.

I agree that Ginjou is second only to Aizen in terms of idiotic pride in one's own abilities, but really, Tsukishima is the most cunning villain in Bleach. Aizen would compete if he didn't have enough hubris to kill an army of gods.
shinigami_1nabe on August 18th, 2011 09:45 am (UTC)
I wholeheartedly agree. Those two are idiots. As Renji said, they are imbeciles!

Perhaps they thought that Uruhara and Isshim would be too afraid to call Soul Society's attention to their exiled selves to do anything about it. They probably assumed that they could take advantage of Ichigo, being abandoned by Soul Society and all. They probably peed themselves silly when they finally realised the kind of back-up Ichigo had at his disposal.
selenityshiroiselenityshiroi on August 18th, 2011 09:54 am (UTC)
One thing that I'm curious about is the fact that everything we know about Fullbrings and where they come from comes from the mouth of Ginjo and, since he's obviously an antagonist, we can kind of wonder as to whether he is a lying liar who lies.

Are we really certain that fullbring powers are inherited by Hollow attacks on pregnant women?

Or maybe they come from stealing powers from shinigami. After all, Ichigo was somewhat like them (but the power he 'stole' from Rukia was kind of consensual and it didn't kill her) PLUS he had his own shinigami powers from his heritage. Because I think the shinigami badge Ginjo has has obviously been obtained in a less than gentle manner.

Just a thought I had after diving head first back into Bleach after Rukia reappeared.

But it would totally change things if getting shinigami to show up was actually the plan.

Edited at 2011-08-18 09:55 am (UTC)
(Anonymous) on August 19th, 2011 02:08 am (UTC)
When did Chad steal power from a shinigami?
(no subject) - selenityshiroi on August 21st, 2011 08:51 am (UTC) (Expand)
jpblackjpblack on August 18th, 2011 11:09 am (UTC)
This arc is called the Lost Agent. Assuming it's not Ginjo, he's only been mentioned(assuming that wasn't a lie!) and not showed up. Assuming it is Ginjo, don't count him out, yet.
needaccountneedaccount on August 19th, 2011 07:46 am (UTC)
There's also the popular opinion that the Lost Agent is actually Ichigo, so...If not, I hope to learn more about him, soon!
_debbiechan_: Ishida has to think about it by Distille_debbiechan_ on August 18th, 2011 12:18 pm (UTC)

LOL. He KNEW about Isshin but I'm not so sure he knew about Urahara. I'm in "wait and see" mode. I certainly didn't expect all these Shinigami to appear in the last chapter apparently to smack down a few measly human fullbringers who've just been doing minor shenanigans as far as the order of the universe is concerned--certainly nothing on the order of Aizen. Really, all the FBs have been doing is annoying and torturing Ichigo....

So why are all the Shinigami there? To smackdown Tsuki and Ginjou? Why would they CARE? How is taking Ichigo's Fullbring powers so important (let alone pulling some mindtrick stunts on a few humans) from SS's usually unsympathetic POV?

Ginjou and Tsuki have always struck me as small-timers... unless there's something we don't know yet.
incandescensincandescens on August 18th, 2011 01:18 pm (UTC)
But it might not be just Ichigo's powers that were stolen.

I have a theory, which I don't know if you've seen or not, and the theory is that the Fullbringers have been running this scam (or similar) before. They find a person with a developable Fullbring, train them up and put them in a crisis situation so that they'll be at full power -- and then steal that power. I'm not sure yet whether the other Fullbringers are suffering from Tsukishima's memory-edits, or if they were aware of what was going on throughout and are just better actors than Ginjou. (It'd explain Riruka's guilty looks at Orihime, wouldn't it?)

If this is the case, then Soul Society might have been on their trail for a while, but have had problems tracking them down. And that's why the other shinigami are here in force. Now that they've finally got a solid lead on where the Fullbringers are, it's time for the Gotei 13 to take out the trash.

A side note -- just as the "rescue Orihime from HM" was a sort of repeat-and-subvert of the "rescue Rukia from SS" arc, this could be seen as a repeat-and-subvert of the Vizard arc. A mysterious group of strangers turn up and offer to train Ichigo in strange new powers so that he can protect his friends. Only this time they're using him, it's a con job, they aren't on his side, and you really shouldn't trust strangers with candy.
(no subject) - skilly_n_duff on August 18th, 2011 02:15 pm (UTC) (Expand)
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anostiana on August 18th, 2011 01:55 pm (UTC)
My opinion is that the Captains and Vice Captains didn't come because of the FBs.

The way that Rukia said: "Ginjou was it?" to me feels like she couldn't care less about him. I mean if she really was here with the rest of them to defeat the FBs, don't you think that they would show a little more interest in their enemy?

I have this gut feeling that something huge is going on in SS and that they need Ichigo's help. I'm not saying that the FBs will be killed in the next chapter, but I really don't think that they are that important to SS, even if they did commit some crimes. I mean c'mon, Kenpachi alone would blast them and Karakura right off the planet without the other four (unbelievably HOT) Gotei 13 members.

Also, Toushiro looks unbelievably sad and depresed. (I LOVE his new hair he looks so UMF!) I mean I know that he's usually smug, but this really looks like more than usual. Plus, something about his scarf bugs me. He's not the type to care for fashion at all, so I'm guessing someone gave it to him because of something? Is someone dead? (Although I doubt that) Did someone disapear?

And why has Byakuya suddenly removed all signs of his noble family?

Something HUGE is going on I'm telling you! And it's not because of the FBs.
(Anonymous) on August 18th, 2011 02:59 pm (UTC)
Ohhh!! I like this! I didn't even play attention to all these details!! *runs back to re-re-read the last chapter*
I was too busy checking out all the captains/VCs! Ahhh I can't wait for the next chapter! I really hope they're here to take Ichigo back to SS.
(no subject) - anostiana on August 18th, 2011 04:13 pm (UTC) (Expand)
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gruskek: gintokigruskek on August 18th, 2011 08:01 pm (UTC)
What you're saying does make a lot of sense... but I kind of hope it isn't true xD If after all that build up those guys turned out to be weaklings who overestimated their own abilities it would be very anticlimactic :/ I mean I'd prefer to watch a fight than a massacre xD
lyra0the0white: slap itlyra0the0white on August 18th, 2011 08:33 pm (UTC)
They've the problem most villains have. They're overconfident in their own abilities. At least Ginjo... There's something about Tsukishima that gives me the vibe that there's more to come.

I like to think that most villains are smart but they throw it all away by thinking they're better than anyone and consequently underestimating the hero that usually ends um defeating them.

But, I guess, that can be called stupidity as well XD
Quirkygrlmshepnj on August 18th, 2011 10:49 pm (UTC)
I'm on board with the theory that the shingami came to re-empower Ichigo because they need him for some purpose and because Isshin was worried about Ichigo being kind of depressed or disconnected because he had lost his powers. They consider him a comrade and friend and want to help him. The fullbringers just came along and raised the stakes because they were committing a scam on Ichigo. But the fullbringers are a nuisance and not a serious threat which is why Rukia was so dismissive of them. I think now is when the real story begins...

needaccount: Byakuyaneedaccount on August 19th, 2011 08:51 am (UTC)
I've been posting all up in this thread without approaching the original topic. Sorry.

I totally agree that they're pretty stupid if they don't have some kind of back up plan and went through this whole thing while knowing at least Isshin and Urahara are captain-class shinigami that can keep in contact with Soul Society. XD

But Tsukishima's near total absence in the recent chapter makes me wonder if he, with or without Ginjou, has something in mind.
(Anonymous) on August 19th, 2011 09:26 am (UTC)
I concur, mostly.
I agree with you about 95%.

They are, indeed, idiots. But I am just hoping against hope that Kubo-san has something MAJOR in store for them. As in, I hope they didn't waste our time for six months. Fullbringers must serve some sort of purpose in the Bleach universe? Why go through all the trouble of bringing even MORE characters and a crazy, seemingly half assed story line just so they could leave us in suspense about when the OLD characters were going to pop back up! (Looking a little off in appearance btw, I'll rant more about that in a sec) They weren't very bright especially Ginjo if he seriously thought he'd be able to just strip Ichigo of his powers after giving him some new power! That seems far fetched and silly. Why bully the substitute soul reaper loser? just to make him cry like a sissy (Rukia was on point with that).

My crazy, cracky idea: Ginjo may have some family bond to either Isshin (and Ichigo too, duuh) or possibly even Aizen (I say Aizen because I miss him already).

or simply, Ginjo is a dingbat full bringer.

Speaking of FullBringer what is going to happen to the other Full Bringers? and where the hell are my beloved Vizards at? Hmm, Kubo-san?! HMMM!?! *sigh* I need a life.

Anyways there is my rant. Oh wait, I take that back. I have one more thing to bitch about, a forewarning, it's trivial.

Why the hell hasn't Rukia's hair grown?! With the all the other makeover's that everyone else received I was sincerly looking forward to having Rukia back with some long, ebony locks! Was I the only one who thought that it was Hanatarou (I may have misspelled his name, the kid from the 4th division)??! Because I certainly did! I did, however like her gloves. They were cute. And at least Renji was looking all kinds of bad ass, no more pineapple head. Byakuya was looking pretty cute there too and my favorite, crazy ass captain Zaraki still looked menacing despite no longer having the bells in his spikes, no more spikes either? Hmmm, I need to look at the picture again. Poor Toshiro by the way, I noticed he hasn't hit a growth spurt.

Ok, I'm done now! Goodnight :]
Catwoman & bitch extraordinaireelfishscallywag on August 19th, 2011 05:36 pm (UTC)
It's greed. Standard reason for the villain's downfall.

Ichigo had a lot of power to give them, so they tried anyway even though it was dangerous.
caviszecavisze on August 21st, 2011 02:44 am (UTC)
You are too awesome. My brain is too busy squeeing and doing the happy dance (upon the return of one and several other characters) to even care about logical fallacies in villainous plots right now.