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27 September 2010 @ 08:23 am
We have rebuttal to Karenai's essay!  
Warning for shipping.

We've waited over a year for someone, anyone, to answer karenai 's Lust Arc essay (linked on side of this community). The author has asked over and over for a response, and now it seems we do have a long and comprehensive rebuttal:

The rebuttal essay is Orihime Loves Ichigo. The title itself is deceptive since that statement itself is arguably canon fact (although Karenai's essay does, among other things, conclude that Orihime does not really love Ichigo--I have always disagreed with her about that one particular). This essay, posted on a site that doesn't allow for comments, addresses many points besides Orihime's love for Ichigo and does seem to beg for comments insofar as it seems to be riddled with errors. I'm asking everyone here who responds to it to read the whole thing before responding, to be on his or her best behavior before responding, to acknowledge the effort that went into compiling all the documentation in the essay and to refrain from mocking statements, but please, address the more outrageous claims. In particular I'm interested in the issue of Viz's translation being the one correct source, the characterizations of romance in shounen, Rukia's characterization ("Rukia is as naive as Hinamori when it comes to a pretty face"), the idea that Ichigo and Rukia being a couple would cause havoc among the nakama, and the bizarre conclusion that it wasn't Ulquiorra's breaking off IchiThing's horn but Orihime's calling out to IchiThing that caused Ichigo's transformation back to normal and caused him to not fire the cero at Ishida.

Anon comments disabled. Please, respond succinctly and politely.

eta: and in anticipation of the question why link this essay and not other IchiOri essays, the answer is that this is the only one I've seen that directly responded to an essay on this site.
 
 
 
_debbiechan_: ulqui gif_debbiechan_ on September 27th, 2010 07:39 pm (UTC)

Yes, there was a whole lot of assigning motives--funny how I glossed over that. I guess I was still wavering on cold meds or something--usually that sort of thing gets my ire up right away but definitely, that sort of thing has no place in an essay. I guess I looked right away for the things to agree and disagree on that had nothing to do with how the author saw shippers. I'm too used to not taking the accusations personally maybe--also IshiHime shippers don't get knocked around much and I'm not hardcore IchiRuki or UlquiHime--I just really like them and I guess see them in romantic situations in canon.
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_debbiechan_: 60secondcoming_debbiechan_ on September 27th, 2010 08:15 pm (UTC)

I'm better, still coughing but much better.

Yes that thread was fun. It was really well moderated but as usual it was one or two trolls who killed the fun.

None of the really sharp IchiOri fans will debate 1:1 though--they will claim that debate is futile or that writing essays is an exercise in futility but they will write LONG-ASS POSTS in various places that are in direct response to points made in shipping essays or make the sorts of public arguments that are the kind that one makes in a debate thread. They also do write essays, although the shipping essay seems to have fallen out of fashion lately. The last couple ones here posted on bleachness were met with yawns or irritation even by people who tend to like that sort of thing.

I myself am all back in the mood, though. Don't know what's gotten into me except the prospect of the manga returning to the dome.
maewiemaewie on September 28th, 2010 01:12 am (UTC)
Go to animesuki, and discuss romance there. Ive met several serious IH-shippers, and they've given a few examples that makes me-an outspoken ulquihime/ichiruki-shipper, something to think about.
So the sharp IchiOri fans do exist, they are just hard to findXD
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_debbiechan_: D Bomb_debbiechan_ on September 28th, 2010 04:15 pm (UTC)

You'll hear the argument that there is a lot of time in the manga left and that angst makes for a good story and there will something to bring Ichigo and Orihime closer together from the dome story (actually I don't doubt that--they've got themselves to repair and subsequently relationships with all the nakama) and that love isn't all roses and happiness.

Interesting that last bit since the ship used to be characterized as a cutsey one. It's banking on lots of interaction with Ichigo's Hollow problem now.

There are people who ship Ichigo and Orihime out there who do so with some acceptance that what happened on the dome wasn't a shining moment of heroism, but my perception is that this acknowledgement came somewhat reluctantly.