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09 July 2010 @ 12:33 pm
HM Orihime's Failures and Faults. Selfish or Heroic?  
Since Orihime's character development is the hottest topic to talk about and I didn't get to answer some people's questions, I wrote an essay. There's many arguments I want to get over with, so many excuses that I want to prove wrong. Please read as I show you hard cold evidence of  HM Orihime's failures and passivity, along with different parallels Tite Kubo has shown us included.


Orihime going to HM
It is not a valid argument that Orihime went to HM to protect her friends or just because she wanted to be saved. We don't know unless she says it herself. Now don't think I'm claiming she went to HM because of jealousy, because I agree she went to protect her friends. Though, there has been many types of evidence that she had some subconcious desire to get saved. Looking at her actions of prioritizing Ichigo and passivity, it seems to get questioned a lot. Was it because she's jealous of Rukia and how much attention she gets from Ichigo? No one knows.
I'm russian and my grammar is a little bit off, sorry if you don't understand some points I'm trying to make.



When Orihime found out her friends came to save her, she was happy.



She said "Thank you Kurosaki-kun..for coming to save me."
What about the rest of her friends? Did she thank them for coming after her also? No. Only Ichigo...



Wow, Not even a thank you to Ishida, she hasn't said one thing to him for coming to save her.



Orihime did want to be saved. Or more or less, she wanted to be seen and grab Ichigo's attention. She runs to him, saying she's going to heal him, and soon finds out his attention is on Nel instead. Even Tesla is more proactive to protect his Nnoitra-sama



Of course her reaction is sad because she is again not seen by Ichigo.



Oh No, She totally did not see Nel get kicked unconscious. Instead, she runs to go heal Kurosaki-kun first. Look at her reaction when he tells her to heal Nel before him.


Orihime's will to protect/perseverance
Oh so many excuses have been made about Orihime being young, human and helpless because her fairies aren't strong enough. I will NOT praise her for standing around while Ichigo gets sliced into slabs of meat. Even if Nnoitra or Tesla are trapping her, Orihime has the ability to summon her fairies with brainpowah!. Instead, she will watch as Ichigo gets beaten up and not try one thing to protect her FLOL. Orihime's will to protect makes her powers stronger, as her fairies have said.




Hold on, What the fuck? You care more about your fairies safety than Ichigo's? Can you at least try to help him out while you're being the Damsel in Distress?  I would call it cowardly.

Another excuse for this situation is "But she cares about her fairies safety so she can use them to heal later."
The point is that Orihime is human. Whenever you see someone you love die in front of you, you automatically start to blame yourself and ask "What if I did this, what if I did that?" If Ichigo died in front of Orihime because she didn't try to protect him with her fairies due to her worry about their safety, I think she would start to blame herself. It's like saying "I won't use my gun because I only have 1 bullet left to protect myself", It's putting your weapons safety before your friend's life. 



Great job at making Ichigo feel even more down when he just took rockets at his back for you, still no cheering on, shields, or even "are you okay?!" from her. She just gave him the look and stood standing her ass there, one thing she had no trouble accomplishing.



Baby Nel acknowledges that Ichigo is INDEED getting beaten up, and Orihime still does nothing but stand and watch.



Baby Nel has to snap some sense into Orihime and tell her to cheer for Ichigo.



Please look and see how Orihime passively watches Ulquiorra try to get a head shot at Ichigo. She still does NOTHING.



Even Ulqui had to ask why she took so long to put a shield up and protect Ichigo. Instead, she asks "why?" and gives no clear answer, then goes on blubbering when she's trying to find an excuse.


Don't give me that "Because Ichigo told her to back off" crap. Did Tesla listen to Nnoitra when he said to not interfere and keep the girl hostage? No. Nothing stopped Tesla from going to protect Nnoitra, he most likely knew Nnoitra would punish him for that. Though, Tesla deeply cares for his Nnoitra sama and would do anything to keep him safe.

***What I do not get is...Where the hell did Orihime's will to protect and perseverance she's shown gone? She's done it for Tatsuki.. but not for the man she said she'd dedicate five lifetimes to.

What the normal Orihime would do



Struggle and Kick



Bite as well

She did not do one thing but stand around and watch. No struggle at all when she saw Ichigo getting beaten up.

The Lust Arc Disaster
If you're one of those people that said this arc was great for the characters, then I highly recommend you to go back and read the manga. This is so far the worst I've ever seen a character go down so low. The only thing great in this arc for Orihime was character development, learning from her mistakes and that her co-dependency on Ichigo is unhealthy for her character. Orihime made a vow to protect her friends and not depend on Ichigo anymore. Instead she took two steps back from where she was. Orihime is too over-dependent on Ichigo, she always saw him as a knight in shining armor, a hero complex, or someone who would always win. When she saw him defeated, she broke down and gave up because all her hopes were in this man. That should not stop you from trying your all to protect your friends.




If you truly care about that someone, you would try EVERYTHING you have to protect this one person. Even if it constantly fails, you would keep trying. If all fails, you would protect them with your body.


I don't want to hear "Masaki sacrificed herself because she loved her son". If you said you would dedicate five lifetimes to this person, it should be given the same kind of love.



Even for a stranger, Rukia flinged herself to protect Ichigo.
For a stranger.
What does "FLOL" mean again? Fucking LOL?


"I planned on that, I didn't need you to say anything."
Ishida didn't need anyone to tell him either, Orihime should take advice from her friends.



Once Orihime saw her shield fail, she didn't try again, nor did she use tsubaki. She asked for help(Constant Kurosaki-kun Barrage) soon right after that. The one thing that burns the cornea off my eyes.



Ichigo was in the same desperate situation, if he lost, he failed at protecting his friends, just like Orihime. What did Ichigo do? He still showed the will to fight once he knew what he was up against. He's seen all of his attempts have failed, yet he still keeps on going.



....Orihime did not do that. Nor did she try using Tsubaki or even get in front of Ulqui.
I thought she failed at protecting herself, but succeeded at protecting her friends? Isn't that the popular excuse these days?



She asked for an injured man to help her when he needed help the most. Even though she was capable of helping herself. It is immoral, selfish, and a child's way of asking for help. Shounen adults protect each other, she never tried EVERYTHING. She's shown that she can protect less important people at her all, but she can't do the same for her FLOL?

Better yet, How do you "fall in love" with someone for five lifetimes when you two barely even talk?

There's been excuses of "But Ichigo is dead! Why should she need to protect him if he is?"
Are you serious? What about the dying Ishida with the sword stuck inside his belly? So you're not willing to give your life for a friend that risked their life to come and save yours? That's the most horrible and selfish excuse I've heard.

What the normal Orihime would do



Give back



Go badass and confident when someone hurts her friends. Her will to protect is so strong, that her powers were able to manifest itself.


Rukia/Orihime Rescue Parallel
Since Rukia is always attacked for nothing, I want to protect her and show you what the difference is. The difference between these two rescues is that Orihime most likely WANTED to be saved. If Orihime really wanted to protect her friends and "sacrifice" herself, Wouldn't she tell them to go away and leave her alone so they won't get hurt? No, she didn't do a damn thing. Rukia did not want her friends to go and save her, she wanted to clear it all by herself and was not happy that her friends are in danger because of her.




Rukia was hostile and throwing words at Ichigo to leave her alone and go away. She wanted him to go back home and let her settle it herself. She begs and prays for him to go home, not once did she ask for his help.



Orihime never did tell Ichigo to go away because he's going to get killed. Rukia had to constantly yell at Ichigo to leave because she was worried he would get torn into pieces.



Rukia thought it was her fault that Ichigo's life was twisted around, so she willingly went to S.S. to not only protect him, but do her punishment without Ichigo having to pay the price. Rukia is crying. He's already dying and she wishes for him to not strain himself when she believes she cannot be saved. He would die if he tried. If you do not understand the characters in Bleach, You do not understand Bleach itself.


Tatsuki/Orihime Desperate Situation Parallel

Remember that argument about Orihime being young and human so she can't do anything? Well Kubo just destroyed that argument. Both of them are young and human, Tatsuki on the other hand does not have ANY super human abilities or the power to even move. Orihime had the chance to help herself, Tatsuki did not. Don't go saying "but Tatsuki didn't do anything either!!". She was incapacitated and even dying slowly in the presence of Aizen's reiatsu. If Tatsuki did have the chance to be a badass, she would do something, but she is not even able to help herself. It is normal for a shounen girl to get some huge ass power up that says "You hurt my friends, Now I'mma Kick your ass!". Orihime HAD the chance to do that, but once she saw one shield fail, she gave up and asked for an injured man(not only her FLOL) for help. Tatsuki never did have that chance, she was clearly a mere human in the presence of God.




Rukia put Orihime's safety before hers when she was dragging her trident pierced belly so she can save Orihime. When Rukia was dying herself. It is not an age requirement to go at all costs when protecting your friends. I've heard that "Rukia is 150 years old, so she was experienced" excuse too much.


Don't you dare say Keigo wasn't a hero for running away and leaving Tatsuki. He's been told to not worry about her. He was also carrying Chizuru, of course he would think about her safety before his.



He was even yelled at twice to run when he asked why.



Tatsuki was thinking about someone else's safety before hers. She kept asking constantly what she should do. Instead of asking for someone to help her, like Orihime did to incapacitated Ichigo. Tatsuki told Keigo to run, having to take Aizen by herself.

What other excuses will people bring up to hide Orihime's failures of not doing shit?
She was on her PMS and had a tampon stuck up her ass?

Her flaws and faults should not be covered in blankets of kittens and rainbows. It's time for people to get over the Disney princess Orihime that's drilled in their heads. Her flaws and faults are out in the open and I will talk about it because that is the way Kubo wrote it.

Does it make me less of a fan if I acknowledge her numerous fails and flaws?
No, because we all want Orihime back to her badass normal self before she went to HM. We all want her to overcome her problems.
Doesn't that make me more of her fan? 

I won't say she's selfish, but putting Ichigo before ishida and Nel was pretty damned.

EVERYONE wants SS Orihime back, this post was not made to condemn her more, it was made to answer arguments that have been going on for centuries. Yes, I do believe we should all think about her redeeming for what she has done. She is capable of doing better because she has done it before.  I wish she can move on from whatever is weighing her down or giving her this low self esteem she's showing. I hope Kubo makes her great turn to this.
.
Though she prioritizes Ichigo a little too much, kind of like putting your love interest before your friends or a stranger. I just think that she should give the same kind of love to everyone, no matter who they are(Nel & Ishida). I know i'm a medical nerd for bringing this up, but  it has always been told to care for  your patient the way you would do for family, love and etc.(sorry for blabbering). I don't think she was heroic in this arc, I wouldn't call her selfish, but human in the worst possible way.


****
Credits to Adriana for the highlighted "what orihime would do" panels
 
 
 
 
_debbiechan__debbiechan_ on July 9th, 2010 05:48 pm (UTC)


LOL, okay, tell us how you really feel, Vin.

Well, it's not like we haven't heard these arguments before but I for one appreciate that you've compiled them so neatly, with panels and such all into one place.

I'm an Orihime fan. She's my favorite female character in Bleach. Besides recalling the character that she was before this arc, his overview of her leaves out so much of her psychology and personal tragedy that I think others have elaborated upon further here in bleachness and other places, but yeah, I do believe it's really plain that Orihime effed up on the dome.

And that she'll pull herself together again. That's what her fans want for her.
Винсентvindictev on July 10th, 2010 03:13 am (UTC)
What I really feel is that I'm disappointed in Orihime for her overdependence on her friends. Her co-dependency on them led to the actions she made at the dome.

I'm even more disappointed at the fact that she ignored Ishida and Nel and went to Ichigo first. Goes to show her obsession with him...

I just think that her "love" for Ichigo and her overdependence destroys her character. I've seen Orihime do so much more and stick up for her friends, I just don't get why not this time. I guess it's her low self esteem.
Super Nintendo Chalmers: Orihime - No Excuses!strawberries_85 on July 9th, 2010 05:53 pm (UTC)
I FUCKING LOVE YOU RIGHT NOW! <3

So much "word" on everything you said. I'd love to elaborate on it, but really, you've just summarised what I've always thought.

I must say though, I find it really sad how Orihime only thought of Ichigo coming to save her and only thanked him in HM. Sure she may feel some sort of love for him though I still doubt it's love. But what sort of a love is this when your mind, your world revolves around a person you've hardly spoken to, a person who cannot connect with on a deeper level? What sort of a love is this when you forget the amazing, selfless sacrifices your other friends are making for you, risking everything to make sure you're saved?
Far out, not even a word to Uryuu after such dedication to caring for her safety and well-being.

The chapters with Nnoitra/Tesla are painful. Orihime is so, so much more capable than that. I completely understand that she cares about her powers and of course it would suck if the hair pins were ruined again, but dammit, you have to at least try! How can you just declare a love of five lifetimes for someone and not even try to save them in such a predicament? Where is her fighting spirit?

It's just really sad that certain people in fandom have turned Orihime into a 2D Disney princess of their fantasies and they praise a "love" that makes this kick ass character into a shell of her former self, a person she does not wish to be.

It seems the more Orihime's feelings grew, the more she lost her inner spark. I cannot wait to see her turn this around.
Винсентvindictev on July 10th, 2010 02:50 am (UTC)
Thanks, Glad you enjoyed it <33333

Excuse me for my grammar, Im russian xD.
Yes, ever since we saw Orihime's co-dependency on Ichigo, everything of her character went sort of downhill.

I would really like to see Orihime stick up for herself and get one of those badass powerups like she did for Tatsuki.

We need the old badass Orihime back.

(no subject) - strawberries_85 on July 10th, 2010 04:01 am (UTC) (Expand)
Iselin: UlquiHimeiselinka on July 9th, 2010 06:03 pm (UTC)
I've read it before in the Orihime FC but since I'm not a part of it I couldn't comment.

I really like this essay. I says a lot about Orihime. I believe that many of us were perfectly aware of the situation but there are people who insist on ignoring the obvious. I hope they read this. Although I'm pretty sure they're going to continue keeping their eyes and ears closed.

Oh,I adore the normal Orihime so much...! I'd be so great to see her back. I hope that everything she experienced on the dome changes her for better. As you clearly illustrated her unhealthy love is destroying her character.
Винсентvindictev on July 12th, 2010 05:06 am (UTC)
Thanks for the compliment, I'm glad you liked it <3

Yes, we need the cute and badass Orihime back.
Kashino: Bleach-Muramasakashinosei on July 9th, 2010 06:03 pm (UTC)
I like your summary. Neutral feelings about her, since I'm not a fan on the girls in Bleach, but in my personal opinion, she looks pitiful to me. Kinda forgetting to put her powers for saving here and there, forgetting Ishida is really...sad.
(Anonymous) on July 10th, 2010 10:19 am (UTC)
I believe the fact that Orihime does in fact ignore Ishida whilst he does fullfil the prince charming 'fantasy' that she wants from Ichigo just for her is quite telling. Like Ichigo, Orihime needs to grow up in order to countinue her journey. When Ichigo is literally facing his inner beast in order to grow, Orihime would have to face her own obstacle in order for herself to grow again. And that is her insistant dependance on Ichigo. If Kubo is dealing with Kurosaki right now, he'll deal with Orihime next. You'll see.
darkslover: Cute Lenaleedarkslover on July 9th, 2010 06:06 pm (UTC)
Always an enjoyment analyzing characters. And yes, not turning a blind eye to her flaws is always a better thing than finding excuses for her actions. Or, inactions. I also liked a lot how you brought up Masaki's death and the impact it had on Ichigo's psyche. It is far more believable and it ties much better with who exactly he is than a hidden love.

My opinion is that yes, she did go to HM to protect everyone, that was her conscious goal. However, jealousy is a nasty, tricky thing. It is no accident that people say it "eats from the inside". Even if we feel terribly for having such thoughts, even if we would have never imagined ourselves being so ugly on the inside and we are shocked and appalled, we are. I'm speaking from personal experience. It was awful. Jealousy is a monster.

But, it is also humane. Humans are a deeply flawed species, and if anything, I am glad Kubo used Orihime to present this. Very mature for a shounen series. Of course, all flaws are there to be overcome by the end, which makes it quite unrealistic, but up until now, Orihime is quite realistic. I've found that her complex is far more complicated than of the other characters, and it had a huge impact on Ichigo, the storyline and Bleachverse. Orihime's degrading as a shounen heroine was necessary and from what I've read, Kubo had this planned from the beginning. He did say that she'd become important later, so he had to get used to drawing her.

Back in Orihime's psychology, I agree that she wanted to become like Rukia in Ichigo's eyes. Or rather, to become what she viewed in Ichigo's look when Rukia was wounded. She wanted to be saved by him and this narrowed her vision. There are chances where the old, good Orihime returns, for example the Ken-chan <3 vs Nnoitra (sp?) fight, when the latter went to attach Yachiru, Orihime ran to protect her, leaving Ichigo behind, healing. Kubo illustrates this way that there is still hope for her, she is still Orihime and her new persona is not completely unrelated to her old one.

Personally, I think Rukia's rescue set an example in Orihime that she took in a bad way: I think Ichigo is invincible, so saving me wouldn't cause too serious consequences, right? He did it in the past for Rukia, he'll do it for me as well, because Matsumoto said I'm equally important to him, just in a different way, right? He's going to give his all and since I view him so strong, he'll be fine, so it's okay for me to sit there and watch, right?

Orihime said that on her own. She thought Ichigo would be fine, so she turned a blind eye. Her words. Because since there was a high chance he'd save her without serious consequences, it was okay for her to be the damsel.

But, all the above is the subconscious affecting the conscious in a powerful way that few can oppose. Willpower is a common theme in shounen and it usually goes against this: the subconscious that tells us to just give it up, it is okay, etc. Orihime is just not that strong when it comes to Ichigo, and that's a bad thing. For both individuals.

I expect Orihime's willpower to get a boost, but I have no idea how. Who or what will be the cause? I sure hope not Ichigo in the beginning. He can come later. He needs to come, because he'd be her biggest challenge, but please, at first I want someone else. My shipping self says Ulquiorra or Ichida.

Nice post. :)
n a o k o || want your rad bromance: Dawn- Musings on nightmaresnendo_chan on July 9th, 2010 06:17 pm (UTC)
herpderp
Either LJ ate my comment, or someone deleted it, but while I agree with this whole post 110%, some people are just not going to acknowledge the evidence Kubo is shoving down their throats, so can we move on from Hime-wank? Yes, she's failed spectacularly this arc, but now that things may be taking a turn for the better with her having admitted she's been wrong, can't we turn our focus to the ways she might redeem herself?
_debbiechan_: Orihime by senbonzakura77_debbiechan_ on July 9th, 2010 06:32 pm (UTC)
Re: herpderp

I saw your comment--It wasn't screened or deleted by a mod. I wonder what happened. But yeah, a lot of people do share your sentiment. The Orihime discussion has just had the lid taken off it after a long time of "negative discussion about Orihime not allowed" or something along those lines in the Orihime FC in BA so I believe the topic's been hot bc of that... things will taper off naturally. This essay was posted there first in response to a fury of discussion at that FC over the past few days. Things will cool off eventually.

I'm ever patient for Orihime character development. After all, I waited four years for the Tousen and Komamura battle and wasn't disappointed. I'm on the brink of a GinRan confrontation. The idea that Sensei is only prolonging the Orihime resolution makes me hope that he's going to make it worth the wait.
(no subject) - nendo_chan on July 9th, 2010 06:36 pm (UTC) (Expand)
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peca_06peca_06 on July 9th, 2010 07:35 pm (UTC)
The Apotheosis essay of Orihime's failures!!! Well done!! It is like all the jumbled up thoughts flying around in my mind all these years have been put in an organized, well spoken and neat fashion by you. Thank you for this <3333333 . It encompasses all that makes Bleach fans, like me, frustrated with her character (PUTTING STUPID SHIPPING ARGUMENTS ASIDE!), because we know she is capable of BETTER, since she has done it BEFORE with other people! We want her to move on for the shackles of her mind and whatever is weighing her down, incapacitating her and making her in that pathetic way and be stronger than she even was before. We know is in her! The harder you fall, the better you learn your lessons.
As an Ichigo fan, through HM, I cried tears of blood when he was repeatedly tortured, maimed, taken missiles to the back, etc... That even though the guy made his mistakes, he came to HM and did put his life on the line, to not get much support, not even a cheer, from the person he was doing this things for, made me really upset (and only Nell was able to muster something like that, a damaged ex-espada that had reverted to a baby stage with a head injury, was able to do more for him T__T).
Ichigo is getting his development now, Hime should be next and I can't wait for her to get on the road to recovery...
I greatly enjoyed it, even though you don't say anything I didn't know already, but it was awesome to see it all laid out in front of our eyes with clear panels and points ^_^.
Adam Eppadam_epp on July 9th, 2010 07:44 pm (UTC)
Well, Orihime's objective in this arc has been heroic, I'd say. Her goal of going into Hueco Mundo alone, destroying the Orb of Doom, and saving all her friends was noble.

But her attempts at executing these lofty goals have been much less than heroic. What's become apparent is that Orihime doesn't have the inner character to match the high standards she set for herself. I don't think selfish is the word I'd use to describe her, though, considering how selfless her ambitions have been (even if most of them are centered on Kurosaki-kun...her desires still revolve around the good of somebody else). When Orihime cries out to a dying Kurosaki-kun for help, that's not selfish so much as it is cowardly.
_debbiechan_: Ishida has to think about it by Distille_debbiechan_ on July 9th, 2010 08:10 pm (UTC)

See, it's these strong words that get people so bent out of shape. "Selfish" "Cowardly"--while these are words we could all use to describe ourselves at some point or another, they sound so accusatory when hurled at even a ficticious character. Ichigo's own dad didn't call him a coward when Ichigo wanted to give up and not follow Aizen and Gin to Karakura but Isshin did blast Ichigo with some tough love. In a sense, I like to believe that's what some of Orihime's fans are doing here, but words like "selfish" and "cowardly" just provoke indignation from the er... more sensitive parts of fandom.

It's my particular belief that Orihime MAY be proven later in the manga to have had some sort of subconscious unvoiced desire to be saved/rescued as was Rukia in SS by Ichigo but this all has to do with some sort of fantasy, not so much an actual personality flaw of selfishness in Orihime's character. She has for the better part of the manga thought of others before herself... although, yeah, her running to Ichigo before healing Baby Nel and her obviously ignoring Ishida on the Dome--that's all very damning. Not to the point where it makes her a selfish character though--it just points to her obsession with Ichigo.
Late night nonsense - adam_epp on July 10th, 2010 08:15 am (UTC) (Expand)
Re: Late night nonsense - vindictev on July 10th, 2010 08:22 am (UTC) (Expand)
(no subject) - adam_epp on July 10th, 2010 08:53 am (UTC) (Expand)
(no subject) - vindictev on July 10th, 2010 09:12 am (UTC) (Expand)
Re: Late night nonsense - _debbiechan_ on July 10th, 2010 12:55 pm (UTC) (Expand)
カゼ: Fallen Grimmjowkamikaze43v3r on July 9th, 2010 08:26 pm (UTC)
Again, I'm still tired of all the hooha about Orihime but I read it anyway for lulz, and yes I lul'd.

Cookie Monster <3

One thing though: Grimmjow said something to Ichigo - something about 'saving her physically but do you know what's going on inside her?' I wonder if this has anything to do with Orihime being the way she is. Probably like, Aizen implanted some 'go obsessed with your crush till you lose common sense' psycho chip thing or whatevs. Whatever it is, I'm just waiting for Kubo to explain himself. Who knows if this even plays an important role because the mention of it was quite brief?
_debbiechan_: Oh noes Orihime by stereotype vamp_debbiechan_ on July 9th, 2010 08:43 pm (UTC)

I really hope it's a psycho chip. *sigh* People have been saying she's carrying the spawn of SATAN/AIZEN'S BABY/ULQUIORRA'S BABY... who knows... he DID show her the hougyoku and had her right up close to it so maybe it made something in her desires go haywire but I like to think that her psychology has followed a natural human progression so far. I've understood it on that level at leasst.
kohi_no_torakohi_no_tora on July 9th, 2010 09:52 pm (UTC)
If you're one of those people that said this arc was great for the characters, then I highly recommend you to go back and read the manga

Actually I do, but probably for a rather different reason than most who feel that way. I think that it's great that they've hit rock bottom since the only way left is up.




I hope.
deathlike on July 9th, 2010 11:13 pm (UTC)
I think that it's great that they've hit rock bottom since the only way left is up.

Only thing left is an Ishida Quincy Elevator.
(no subject) - vindictev on July 9th, 2010 11:31 pm (UTC) (Expand)
(no subject) - vesperh on July 9th, 2010 11:37 pm (UTC) (Expand)
(no subject) - adam_epp on July 10th, 2010 07:14 am (UTC) (Expand)
kanjo_girl: yoruichikanjo_girl on July 9th, 2010 10:49 pm (UTC)
I've heard that "Rukia is 150 years old, so she was experienced" excuse too much.

Just sayin, Ichigo's, like, 15 and he has about the same determination as Rukia (well, maybe a bit more.) So, yeah, that excuse is getting far too old.

What I do not get is...Where the hell did Orihime's will to protect and perseverance she's shown gone? She's done it for Tatsuki.. but not for the man she said she'd dedicate five lifetimes to.

Something drastically changed in Orihime's character the second she canonically expressed her love for him. It's like her whole world not surrounded him. Everything else didn't matter, as long as he was involved somehow--whether it was "protecting" him from the bad guys, or having him around by rescuing her. Tatsuki was excluded, too. Like, Tatsuki showed more care for Orihime up into now. When Orihime felt Rukia "die", her angst was about five seconds until we saw the "Ichigo...please be all right!" kind of shit.

You're totally right about Tatsuki and Keigo. At first, when I read that chapter, I was all "WAIT! KEIGO, NO!" But it showed such character development for Tatsuki, who had to scream at him twice to make him go to safety. That's love. Keigo's resistance was heartbreaking, though. I'm sure he would have stayed if she hadn't said anything (but that wouldn't be Tatsuki, would it?)
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The Main Gauche of Enlightenment: Alphonse Mucha #1 moonvelvetsword on July 9th, 2010 11:02 pm (UTC)
*ahem*
OK, now that I've gotten that out of my system.... Sorry about that, the whole RealID fiasco over on WoW has sapped my IQ and my will to live. Now--

The point of Kubo showing Orihime's character deteriorating once she admits to Matsumoto her jealousy of Rukia and I.F. her feelings for Ichigo is to prove Aizen's axiom (that I keep using different translations of, hu hu hu)-- 'Admiration is the emotion furthest from comprehension'. She doesn't connect to him, they have no meeting points beyond friendship. They don't communicate. Inside, Orihime knows this; why do you think she couldn't kiss him? She knows. But she can't admit it.

Orihime's power isn't healing, it's denial. The farther she sinks into her admiration of Ichigo, the less she understands him and the farther apart they get. And the farther apart they get, the more she struggles to keep a hold of her fantasy. Ichigo is much the same-- the more he sinks into the illusion of himself as the 'powerful protector' the more he loses his grip on that role and sinks farther and farther into his reflexive 'rage state' where his bloodlust overwhelms his judgement. Rukia had her own version of this in HM and SS arc, too.

Ulquiorra's question to Orihime at the end of the Lust arc wasn't a feint-- he was beating her over the head with the obvious in an attempt to see what she was doing to herself. He, like us, was exasperated with the maundering faux-helplessness of what he knew was a strong person. He knew why she was acting that way and he knew what her subconcious objective was in doing it.

Re: *ahem* - vesperh on July 9th, 2010 11:39 pm (UTC) (Expand)
Re: *ahem* - _debbiechan_ on July 10th, 2010 12:37 am (UTC) (Expand)
Re: *ahem* - velvetsword on July 10th, 2010 12:59 am (UTC) (Expand)
Re: *ahem* - velvetsword on July 10th, 2010 11:35 am (UTC) (Expand)
(no subject) - aizome on July 10th, 2010 12:17 am (UTC) (Expand)
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Vayshti: bleachvayshti on July 9th, 2010 10:56 pm (UTC)
Funny, I don't recall Tesla vowing to love Nnoitra for five lifetimes ...

I think that happened off camera ;)
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(no subject) - vayshti on July 10th, 2010 11:07 am (UTC) (Expand)
(no subject) - nendo_chan on July 10th, 2010 05:13 pm (UTC) (Expand)
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(no subject) - nendo_chan on July 10th, 2010 07:38 pm (UTC) (Expand)
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manonlechat: WTFandommanonlechat on July 10th, 2010 12:01 am (UTC)
She was on her PMS and had a tampon stuck up her ass?

Up her ass? I hope not. o_O
Винсентvindictev on July 10th, 2010 02:35 am (UTC)
ROFL
rolladice on July 10th, 2010 01:02 am (UTC)
Nice summary essay :D just one little rebuttal…

“Hold on, What the fuck? You care more about your fairies safety than Ichigo's? Can you at least try to help him out while you're being the Damsel in Distress?”

I have to disagree, I honestly think she’s not so selfish that she cared more for her fairies safety than Ichigo. Just that she’s made to believe that they would be destroyed as soon as she’s called them out and before she could help Ichigo and so she just doesn’t try. And yes, she should have tried.

And a big agreement with this…

“Wow, Not even a thank you to Ishida, she hasn't said one thing to him for coming to save her.”

Most people pinpoint the “Help, Kurosaki-kun!” as Orihime’s lowest point, but for me, that page where Ishida’s so concerned about her and she can’t even give him the time of day is worse >.<

Overall, after reading your essay (and others) I’ve come to the conclusion that this is all Ichigo’s fault.
Take him out of the equation and most of Orihime’s fail disappears.
Therefore, Ichigo must die.

Okay, I’m not being serious ;), but I….am, a little? Both or flawed, both have quite serious issues, but both are generally nice kids. But recently when they’ve been put together, some sort of chemical reaction is making them bring out the very worst in each other. Ichigo makes Orihime reduce to a worthless person who can’t do anything and just has to stand there and get saved. Orihime makes him all “I will be a hero and do this totally on my own!” as well as contributing to him morphing into IchiThing. They’re bad for each other, but it affects Orihime more due to her feelings for him. She’s sucking but it’s not entirely her fault, it’s just a bad combination. Sort of like Heavenly Creatures. :)

About Orihime critique in general…
I can’t work out if people are more annoyed at Orihime failing right now or that other people ignore Orihime’s failings. But I believe if some Orihime(/Ichigo) fans militantly insist on ignoring character flaws, it best to just leave them be. I mean, I like debate as well as the next person, and if everyone agreed it would be no fun, but it’s hard to be constantly bombarded with such negativities about a character you like, often extending to the ship you like as well. If someone loves the character enough, almost anything they do will be forgiveable to them and only if they cross a certain, very distant line or break a certain imaginary character rule they’ve set out somewhere in their head will the character lose their standing. I reckon I could read a thousand pages of essays with solid arguments and evidence and panel-by-panel analysis on why e.g. Ulquiorra is evil/manipulative/emo/dead >.< , and I know by the end of it, not only will I not have been convinced, I’d be pissed off that people will not leave me and my character alone.
This isn’t directed to you personally vindictev! :D your essay is fine, just that no essay is gonna be the essay to end all arguments imo and even if such an essay existed, what a killjoy it would be! (I know this insignificant “let’s just all get along” style post isn’t really gonna change anything either, but I thought I’d throw it out there all the same :) )
Винсентvindictev on July 10th, 2010 02:34 am (UTC)
Of course my essay won't end all arguments, people will alway be butthurt when flaws of their favorite fictional character are pointed out :cookie
(no subject) - vindictev on July 10th, 2010 02:42 am (UTC) (Expand)
(no subject) - (Anonymous) on July 10th, 2010 02:46 am (UTC) (Expand)
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(no subject) - rolladice on July 10th, 2010 11:37 am (UTC) (Expand)
(no subject) - _debbiechan_ on July 10th, 2010 01:05 pm (UTC) (Expand)
(no subject) - rolladice on July 10th, 2010 08:39 pm (UTC) (Expand)
(no subject) - amy_core on July 10th, 2010 02:26 pm (UTC) (Expand)
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(no subject) - rolladice on July 10th, 2010 08:54 pm (UTC) (Expand)
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(no subject) - rolladice on July 11th, 2010 01:09 am (UTC) (Expand)
(no subject) - vindictev on July 10th, 2010 06:11 pm (UTC) (Expand)
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(no subject) - vindictev on July 12th, 2010 08:04 pm (UTC) (Expand)