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02 July 2010 @ 01:46 am
Due to Recent Events in the Manga...  

One of the first things that happened when Bleach 410 came out is that a number of people commented on a parallel that Kubo seemed to be making. Here was another teenage character in this series asking, "What do I do?" but unlike her predecessor, her best friend, this girl reacted quite a bit differently. Cue a great deal of moaning and groaning from certain sections of fandom who think that no, Tatsuki and Orihime did the exact same thing as each other, Orihime did better, Tatsuki is less useful, how can you even make that comparison?

marvellous monster: snow whitefikuz on July 2nd, 2010 09:03 am (UTC)
nicely done.
Kylara: growl hainekokarenai on July 2nd, 2010 09:35 am (UTC)
Thanks ^^; not my finest photoshop job but... yeah, well, I think it's clear that a comparison can be made.
(Deleted comment)
Kylara: BRAINSkarenai on July 2nd, 2010 09:24 am (UTC)
I cannot stop staring at that gif. I didn't watch the show - it is just SO VERY ACCURATE.

"Orihime was used by Kubo to show which behaviour hits the rock bottom in his eyes and in Bleachverse. It was intentional."

That's it exactly. When talking about Bleach, when talking about standards of morality and acceptable behavior in THIS world, Kubo has in fact established the bar in the Bleach universe, and quite clearly at that. He could have chosen another character for it, but he chose Orihime, and then he ripped the best parts of her to pieces.

In Bleach, even a coward like Oomaeda can stand up against the scariest Espada out there and try to protect his captain, but one could chalk that up to training, his job, blah blah. That's not the case with Tatsuki, who is really coming from the same place as Orihime, but with less training, less awareness, and less magical fairies.

At this point, Kubo is drilling it into our heads and the reason I forgive him for this huge, huge lack of subtlety is because as sadly demonstrated on forums over the last two days, some people still don't get it.

And ouch! about the Greek forum. That's one of the harsher things I've heard said about her lately. That's interesting to hear, though, thank you for sharing.

Glad you enjoyed.
(no subject) - hinodeh on July 2nd, 2010 09:29 am (UTC) (Expand)
(no subject) - darkslover on July 2nd, 2010 09:44 am (UTC) (Expand)
(no subject) - karenai on July 2nd, 2010 09:50 am (UTC) (Expand)
(no subject) - snoozy on July 2nd, 2010 06:01 pm (UTC) (Expand)
(no subject) - darkslover on July 2nd, 2010 06:39 pm (UTC) (Expand)
(no subject) - snoozy on July 2nd, 2010 06:52 pm (UTC) (Expand)
(no subject) - (Anonymous) on July 2nd, 2010 09:24 am (UTC) (Expand)
(no subject) - karenai on July 2nd, 2010 09:42 am (UTC) (Expand)
(no subject) - _debbiechan_ on July 2nd, 2010 02:02 pm (UTC) (Expand)
(no subject) - darkslover on July 2nd, 2010 02:19 pm (UTC) (Expand)
(no subject) - (Anonymous) on July 2nd, 2010 07:09 pm (UTC) (Expand)
(no subject) - _debbiechan_ on July 2nd, 2010 07:47 pm (UTC) (Expand)
Kashino: Bleach-Ichi-hostkashinosei on July 2nd, 2010 09:23 am (UTC)
I can't even relate both together. Orihime kinda being projected as a pitiful character who doesn't put her powers to good use, probably forget about them in some ways (most of the time, during emergencies), and so like a constant (hidden) motivator to Ichigo to be stronger. Tatsuki probably a little like Rukia.
Kylara: crobat =_=karenai on July 2nd, 2010 09:30 am (UTC)
Orihime forgot about her powers and therefore this served as a constant hidden motivator to Ichigo to be stronger? If by "stronger" one means "on his back, unconscious, with a hole through his chest after stabbing his nakama, followed up by drowning in a sea of despair."
(no subject) - kashinosei on July 2nd, 2010 09:39 am (UTC) (Expand)
(no subject) - karenai on July 2nd, 2010 09:40 am (UTC) (Expand)
hinodeh: fashionable Ulquihimehinodeh on July 2nd, 2010 09:24 am (UTC)
If there was any way to make me love you more you just did it. <3

Also, I chuckled at "Not that kind of death anyway". Well played.

Kylara: hai thar ichigokarenai on July 2nd, 2010 09:34 am (UTC)
Aaaand an Ulquihime gets it. <3
(no subject) - catseye2001 on July 2nd, 2010 11:44 am (UTC) (Expand)
(no subject) - hinodeh on July 2nd, 2010 12:02 pm (UTC) (Expand)
(no subject) - _debbiechan_ on July 2nd, 2010 05:36 pm (UTC) (Expand)
(no subject) - catseye2001 on July 3rd, 2010 04:31 am (UTC) (Expand)
(no subject) - _debbiechan_ on July 3rd, 2010 12:26 pm (UTC) (Expand)
hollowdust on July 2nd, 2010 09:29 am (UTC)
Honestly I think two situations are different in some aspects, While I do think Orihime hit rock bottom. There are some comparison that are not quite right IMO.

If it was Ulq or Aizen, Tstsuki and friend's chances of survival would still be 0. Plus the situation was not nearly portrayed nearly as desperate, given everyone is in one piece with at least one person "escaping" so any overreaction wouldn't make any sense such as panicking and such

Other then that I agree.
Kylara: Byakuya in the windkarenai on July 2nd, 2010 09:33 am (UTC)
See, I don't think the two situations are exactly the same, either. However, I do think that a comparison is being made by the author himself, that he wants you to look at Tatsuki and think about the last time we saw a girl like this, and that the two situations can and should be compared.

What I most adamantly reject to is the idea of saying that they can't be compared at all, and I certainly object to concluding that Orihime's actions were morally superior to Tatsuki's, injured friends taken into consideration.

Edited at 2010-07-02 09:38 am (UTC)
(no subject) - hollowdust on July 2nd, 2010 09:44 am (UTC) (Expand)
(no subject) - karenai on July 2nd, 2010 09:51 am (UTC) (Expand)
(no subject) - qwirky on July 2nd, 2010 04:21 pm (UTC) (Expand)
Amyamy_core on July 2nd, 2010 10:01 am (UTC)


P.S. fab.

Edited at 2010-07-02 10:06 am (UTC)
Kylara: OMG Konkarenai on July 2nd, 2010 10:08 am (UTC)
I want that arc too :( it's second place to Chad in a pretty white dress sitting in a tower waiting for Ichigo...
(no subject) - mezzo_marinaio on July 2nd, 2010 02:12 pm (UTC) (Expand)
(no subject) - karenai on July 4th, 2010 05:25 am (UTC) (Expand)
Iris: Bleach Lisa Nanaohockeyiris on July 2nd, 2010 11:29 am (UTC)
Love it. Totally won't get into anything, because it's 6:30 a.m. and I need to sleep, but love it. Nicely done.
Willow The Strange and Sunlight Deprived: Yumi Approves!forgottenranger on July 2nd, 2010 12:05 pm (UTC)
Thank you so much for saying this. I literally cheered when I read the latest bit with Tatsuki, cheered for her strength and courage and thought that she is the role model Orihime needs.

*sigh* people make me facepalm.
sleepwalker: fight from a kidsleepwalkerrrr on July 2nd, 2010 12:20 pm (UTC)
I didn't see this comparison, but authorial intent or not it makes sense because those two situations are comparable. Like Hinata in couple of episodes back in Naruto, I think everybody's proving that what Orihime did was fail. Not to mention that Orihime realizes this as well. I think she's the one who is most embarrassed, and that spells that she will do something for someone to make her seem little more better (I'm going for Ishida cause even though I'm not a shipper, he obviously clicks with her the best if you don't count Tatsuki)

Another comparison: Rukia ALREADY being stabbed somewhere to her chest by an enemy who clearly wants to kill her, who's freaking strong and unknown. Ichigo's next to her very conscious, and she sure knows Ichigo is strong. Instead of "Ichigo, help me", "Ichigo, get away from here...".

Nah that's bad, these two are not really even comparable.

Do your best, Inoue (please, even once)
The Main Gauche of Enlightenmentvelvetsword on July 2nd, 2010 12:45 pm (UTC)
Oh shi------

_debbiechan_: MY FANDOM IS CRAZIER THAN YOURS_debbiechan_ on July 2nd, 2010 02:26 pm (UTC)
You're going to have people say the situations aren't the same and of course they're not the same but that doesn't mean comparisons can't be made. Parallels and similes are all born of comparisons between unlike things that are alike enough to draw our attention.

The point has also been made that Orihime has told people to "run" before (when she was in the dangai and Ulqui ceroed her Shinigami escorts), that she has selflessly thought of others in previous situations, that she is NOT by nature a person who doesn't want to protect her friends. Of course.

The point is that in one particular situation Orihime wanted to be saved by Kurosaki-kun. She later asked herself why it is that she always relies on him.

Earlier, Ulquiorra asked her why she hadn't stepped in to defend Ichigo before in a battle and was interrupted before he could say why. This was a device on Kubo-sensei's part TO PUT THE QUESTION IN OUR HEADS .

Why indeed.

I do believe that Orihime wants to be saved. Saved as in the fantasy many of her fans set up for her when they predicted that Hueco Mundo was going to be the archtypical Princess in a tower scene with Ichigo as the rescuer and some of these fans even went so far as to predict that Ulquiorra's release would be a dragon, LOL.

Orihime wanted that fantasy too. After all, she witnessed Ichigo fight for Rukia that way. She wanted to be reflected in Ichigo's eyes that way . She didn't get a prince--instead what rose was a monster.

You'll see. Tsubaki will be fired one day and with such force as to make everyone in Bleach's audience and Orihime herself go "hey, why didn't I do that instead of calling for Kurosaki-kun?" Whether Sensei will be more blatant about what Orihime wanted from Ichigo I don't know--given that he's being subtle as anything that ever fell over Hiroshima these days, I'm guessing that we'll have Orihime's answer eventually.

For now, it's up to Ichigo's inner world to reveal the source of Ichigo's despair. I call it right now that it's NOT ORIHIME. My homegirls (like Ky etc) are saying that Orihime was a trigger for Ichigo's transformation but his problems are his own. Orihime is being likened unto Masaki in other forums which beats me--Masaki wasn't the source of the rain in Ichigo's soul previously either--his inability to protect her was.

Masaki =/= Orihime.
Ichigo could not protect Masaki
Ichigo protected Orihime, didn't he?
Also Orihime IS NOT DEAD, so what's he in SUCH DEEP DESPAIR ABOUT?

Don't even get me started about this business that Shirosaki is in love with Orihime. That wasn't Shirosaki who said "Me Help YOU" to Orihime and it wasn't Shirosaki who rose ALONE on the dome. That IchiThing was a CHIMERA, a la Allon, a combo of Shinigami/Hollow/Human... and part Shiro and Zangetsu and Ichigo. And that crazy MOFO we know as Shirosaki is no one's sexual id living out anyone's rape fantasies--by my bets, it was Ichigo himself who managed to mutter those words of "PROTECT YOU" because he's the one who wants to protect everyone, his friends, yes Orihime--not because he's "in love" but because that's his NAME.
jenny_jadejenny_jade on July 2nd, 2010 03:16 pm (UTC)
Debbie, the time in dangai with Ulqui is not the first time, Orihime has told people to "run". The first time was at chapter 41 "Princess & Dragon" , where she saw the BIG FREAKY Hollow with tentacles moping on top of the gym roof in her school and it spotted her. Orihime at that time had NO POWER, yet she immediately told Chizuru who was near her to "RUN" first instead of herself. Ironic enough, that was the chapter for the first time she used her offensive power, Tsubaki, to protect her friends Tatsuki & Chizuru.

I think what Tatsuki did in the latest chapter with Keigo in the confrontation with Aizen was pretty much like what Orihime did before to her friends (where Kurosaki-kun was not involved and not around her)

Maybe unless, Keigo came back to the scene and Aizen blew a hole in his chest where Tatsuki witnessed the sign of his death and started to panic with the "Keigo-kunKeigo-kunKeigo-kunKeigo-kun" and then "HELP ME, KEIGO-KUN" then they can make a better comparison to prove what Orihime did was normal for an 15 year old girl :)
(no subject) - maeveth on July 2nd, 2010 03:45 pm (UTC) (Expand)
(no subject) - athena799 on July 2nd, 2010 04:07 pm (UTC) (Expand)
(no subject) - maeveth on July 2nd, 2010 04:43 pm (UTC) (Expand)
(no subject) - hollowdust on July 2nd, 2010 06:53 pm (UTC) (Expand)
(no subject) - karenai on July 4th, 2010 05:31 am (UTC) (Expand)
There's no Love Without you: Hime yellne_wayz on July 2nd, 2010 03:44 pm (UTC)
Once again, Karenai has pwned my face with logic!!! Awesome!!!

When I read the chapter, I did see a possible parallel, actually, I thought it was a little obvious, because of Tatuki's reaction to Aizen's threat. After reading this I think that the contrast we can see here is that, although the situation is not 100% similar, Tatsuki did more than Orihime, and Orihime has powers!!! Hime is capable of defending herself to some extent, whereas Tatsuki cannot (At least not against AizenFly), yet she yelled at Asano to run and was pondering a solution. I'm sure that if Tatsuki were to have an ability she would've gone all out.
the "angela needs to update LJ more often" show.abyschan on July 2nd, 2010 03:52 pm (UTC)
The only thing that I'm gonna say on this is.... how do WE know that Tatsuki has now done everything within her power? Who's to say that somehow standing in front of Aizen unharmed dosen't mean anything? Not to mention that Aizen is now a walking-talking hyogoku (sorry if that's spelled wrong).

What I'm getting at here, is that don't be surprised if she suddenly whips out some sort of power.

Also, does anyone else remember... well, I know years back there was some Bleach art books that were put out with drawings/sketches done by Kubo. There was a picture in particular of Tatsuki wearing an ornate gi with a kitsune entwined around her.

What I'm getting at here is that it's way, way too early to make calls/fair comparisons between her and Orihime yet. This new turn of events has only just started. Making final calls/judgments on these new events is not exactly a wise thing to do at this moment.

Edited at 2010-07-02 03:57 pm (UTC)
Avelera: Fight like a Girlathena799 on July 2nd, 2010 04:10 pm (UTC)
I think while it is possible that Tatsuki has some hidden power, whatever it is is not strong or developed enough for her to even stand up in Aizen's presence. There is some hope for her in that she hasn't dissolved/ceased to breathe. Perhaps whoever is joining the fight will get her the breathing space so she can show off. Let's just hope the shinigami outfit doesn't mean she's going to die :(

(Actually, its kind of interesting that Keigo had no trouble standing. I sense another pairing of the higher-reiatsu character with the weaker but still badass fighter ala Ichigo/Rukia and Urahara/Yoruichi.)

(no subject) - wdboldstar on July 2nd, 2010 04:43 pm (UTC) (Expand)
(no subject) - qwirky on July 2nd, 2010 04:43 pm (UTC) (Expand)
i hurt the flower.: .blair bitch's project.snoozy on July 2nd, 2010 04:14 pm (UTC)
Where was this 'wank' about Tatsuki-being-fail/Orihime-being-god again? I saw nothing but a couple posts. Seems to me, like other people are trying to find another way to wank over Orihime as usual. Yeah.
i hurt the flower.: .sweet home alabama.snoozy on July 2nd, 2010 04:19 pm (UTC)
p.s that still doesn;t stop tatsuki from being badass of course.
but lol, there is not even a comparison there that can actually take place within logic grounds.
If we start comparing just to shit on other charas or for the sake of it, then...right.
(no subject) - allelujah on July 2nd, 2010 04:46 pm (UTC) (Expand)
(no subject) - snoozy on July 2nd, 2010 04:53 pm (UTC) (Expand)
(no subject) - hinodeh on July 2nd, 2010 04:59 pm (UTC) (Expand)
(no subject) - snoozy on July 2nd, 2010 05:05 pm (UTC) (Expand)
(no subject) - hinodeh on July 2nd, 2010 05:15 pm (UTC) (Expand)
(no subject) - snoozy on July 2nd, 2010 05:27 pm (UTC) (Expand)
(no subject) - hinodeh on July 2nd, 2010 05:40 pm (UTC) (Expand)
(no subject) - snoozy on July 2nd, 2010 05:53 pm (UTC) (Expand)
(no subject) - hinodeh on July 2nd, 2010 06:11 pm (UTC) (Expand)
Response to your comment down there - hinodeh on July 2nd, 2010 06:39 pm (UTC) (Expand)
Re: Response to your comment down there - snoozy on July 2nd, 2010 06:55 pm (UTC) (Expand)
Re: Response to your comment down there - hinodeh on July 2nd, 2010 07:08 pm (UTC) (Expand)
Re: Response to your comment down there - _debbiechan_ on July 2nd, 2010 07:15 pm (UTC) (Expand)
(no subject) - qwirky on July 2nd, 2010 05:18 pm (UTC) (Expand)
(no subject) - escarboucle on July 2nd, 2010 05:26 pm (UTC) (Expand)
(no subject) - snoozy on July 2nd, 2010 05:30 pm (UTC) (Expand)
(no subject) - escarboucle on July 2nd, 2010 05:46 pm (UTC) (Expand)
(no subject) - snoozy on July 2nd, 2010 05:56 pm (UTC) (Expand)
(no subject) - escarboucle on July 2nd, 2010 06:04 pm (UTC) (Expand)
(no subject) - allelujah on July 2nd, 2010 06:59 pm (UTC) (Expand)
(no subject) - snoozy on July 2nd, 2010 05:30 pm (UTC) (Expand)
(no subject) - qwirky on July 2nd, 2010 06:49 pm (UTC) (Expand)
(no subject) - dark_waterlily on July 2nd, 2010 05:15 pm (UTC) (Expand)
Chloe-girl: snarkgrass_angel on July 2nd, 2010 04:16 pm (UTC)
I. Just. How can you even say that their reactions were similar? Completely different characters! Completely different situations! *stops waving arms about in disbelief*

I suppose it is meant to be a parallel. But I'm mostly spazzing out that Tatsuki is facing Aizen, the master of hax, and thus facing imminent destruction.
i hurt the flower.: .turn another page at the animal bar.snoozy on July 2nd, 2010 04:21 pm (UTC)
I suppose it is meant to be a parallel.

So, whoever 'on the goody-side' comes across an enemy from now on, and freaks out/wonder who the fuck the enemy is/wonder what the hell is gonna happen/etc, brings out automatically a parallel with Inoue-Ulquibatman scene.

(no subject) - hinodeh on July 2nd, 2010 04:31 pm (UTC) (Expand)
Okay, I'll bite - hinodeh on July 2nd, 2010 04:52 pm (UTC) (Expand)