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19 March 2010 @ 10:11 am
This should clear things up a little JUST AS EXPECTED  

Got a message from today from czeliate
hihi debbie..according to the raw in bleach 396.
Aizen says: just as I expected..

just as I planned


The Sleepyfans translation at OneManga is out and uses this translation of what Aizen said.

Binktopia, who translates currently for mangastream, is given to making these sorts of jokes. I'll never forgive them for the line they gave Ishida as Nemu's boobs were about to smother him. Ishida really said "Too close! Too close!" and they translated the line as "Why am I suddenly craving dairy?"

Some people really like Binktopia's jokes and Westernized translations and added ... um... flourishes to the original text, but I'm not one of them.They've sent fandom into circles before--when Urahara opened the garganta for Chad, Ishida, and Ichigo at the beginning of this arc, Binktopia translated the scenario as one where Urahara was going to join the boys on the journey. There were lots of disappointed fans when the real translations came out.

In this case, maybe some of those Aizen introduced Masaki to Isshin mad theories can be put to rest. I've heard some crazy speculation--such as Aizen manipulating Rukia to make her carry the guilt of Kaien (even though these events took place before Ichigo's birth). People were getting a little out of control. And those in fandom who were moaning about the ultimate troll being unbelievable (most of us here at bleachness didn't believe Aizen or Binktopia's line), chillax already?

eta: to murk the waters, CNET is using the "planned" word: Aizen: So this... // ...is your reiatsu. // Splendid. // You have grown well. // Just as... // ...I always planned.

czel explains how the word can't be planned here

Have fun, fandom. I knew you'd go insane with speculation. But there's just no way that Aizen is writing Kubo's story. He's the villain, not the protagonist. He's not Light Yagami. He's using the purdy words on you as well as Ichigo and I dislike watching you both squirm.
annie_08annie_08 on March 19th, 2010 03:39 pm (UTC)
//I've heard some crazy speculation--such as Aizen manipulating Rukia to make her carry the guilt of Kaien//

Really? I know some can be so passionate with all the speculations. But if it was me who went that far because of one sentence I'd questioned my own ability to understand ANYTHING Kubo ever wrote.

I know some don't see much difference between the two lines. But to me "Just as I expected" is no where near implying that Aizen has been planning Ichigo's growth since the moment he met Rukia unlike "Just I planned" which when follows by the flashbacks and Aizen's end speech *could* imply Aizen was claiming responsibility on Ichigo's progression. The expected line fits with the flashbacks as in Aizen is likely mentioning how he was expecting Ichigo to grow from Ulquiorra fight.
_debbiechan__debbiechan_ on March 19th, 2010 04:18 pm (UTC)

Ah, just read my BA message from you too:

I can't msg you on MSN, all the message got bounced back.

Oh, I just wanna confirm that even Drake used 'just as I expected/thought' in his translation. But somehow he seems to have an idea that Aizen has been eyeing Ichigo from the start.

Yeah, I like Drake's translations--they always seem on the money. I'm getting more and more confident now that Aizen wasn't even lying about planning everything--he never even said that.

What's sad though is that the new translations seem to point more to the certainty of Yama-jii's death.
(Anonymous) on March 19th, 2010 03:44 pm (UTC)
czel here^^:


here's the japanese line~

watashi no omoi domorita

私 = watashi, which means: I
思い = omoi, which means :thought
通り(に) = domorita --> just like

which can be translate as:
just like I thought /// just as I thought

well, pretty much the same as: just as I expected.

_debbiechan_: Orihime the next time we meet_debbiechan_ on March 19th, 2010 03:47 pm (UTC)

*blows kiss*

Thank you. Accuracy means so much.
(no subject) - qwirky on March 19th, 2010 03:58 pm (UTC) (Expand)
(no subject) - quaint_twilight on March 19th, 2010 06:01 pm (UTC) (Expand)
(no subject) - _debbiechan_ on March 19th, 2010 06:32 pm (UTC) (Expand)
(no subject) - la_kalaka on March 20th, 2010 05:39 am (UTC) (Expand)
(no subject) - (Anonymous) on March 20th, 2010 09:31 am (UTC) (Expand)
(no subject) - (Anonymous) on March 20th, 2010 10:52 am (UTC) (Expand)
Stella: Kirichanapathymoon on March 19th, 2010 04:02 pm (UTC)
This Aizen bashing has to stop. ;___; He's not omniscient. He's just a tricky, knowledgeable villain.
_debbiechan_: Aizen cruel but awesome by heterogen_debbiechan_ on March 19th, 2010 04:07 pm (UTC)

You forgot sexy.
(no subject) - apathymoon on March 19th, 2010 04:54 pm (UTC) (Expand)
(no subject) - wdboldstar on March 19th, 2010 04:09 pm (UTC) (Expand)
(no subject) - apathymoon on March 19th, 2010 04:56 pm (UTC) (Expand)
(no subject) - malva_lv on March 20th, 2010 08:44 am (UTC) (Expand)
andrew_jpandrew_jp on March 19th, 2010 04:34 pm (UTC)
"He's not Light Yagami."

Or is he?

Mwahaha! Keikaku doori.
masakochan: Bleach - Urahara - *smirk*masakochan on March 19th, 2010 11:42 pm (UTC)
Not until he snaps like so:

(no subject) - wdboldstar on March 20th, 2010 12:23 am (UTC) (Expand)
Shinigami_Lucia: Rukia&Konshinigami_lucia on March 19th, 2010 05:16 pm (UTC)
Okay, so Aizen was already keeping an eye on Ichigo since the very beginning of the series? Could it be because Ichigo has this tremendous reiatsu that is constantly leaking all over the place and that would have alerted Soul Society about him and Aizen being captain decided to take an interest to further his plans, etc etc.
 syx: sexy Rukiadarksyx on March 19th, 2010 05:22 pm (UTC)
Note to self: don't read blinktopia translations. Anyway this only confirm what I have initially understood of Aizen speech.
flippantsoupflippantsoup on March 19th, 2010 05:23 pm (UTC)
So is it a given that Aizen sent that first hollow to attack Ichigo and his family?
_debbiechan_: BITE ME by syn_debbiechan_ on March 19th, 2010 05:36 pm (UTC)

Are you trolling again? Where in any of this chapter is that said or implied? There's a panel of Rukia that is from Ichigo's POV as Aizen is "reading" Ichigo's reiatsu and noting Ichigo's tremendous growth. Even if Aizen PLANNED any of Ichigo's growth (and I'm fairly certain the translation is ambiguous enough to say that Aizen only said "as I thought" not "as I planned"), why does everyone think that Aizen needed to send a Hollow to Ichigo's house in order for Rukia to do this and that?

Aizen wasn't commanding all the Hollows--and that was a lowgrade one, not a souped up one like the one that attacked Kaien's squad.

Why are some people so intent on disproving the "destiny" issue that Kubo made a point of hammering home in chapters 0a-b? Why do some people want the manga to suddenly be the story of Aizen's plotting and not the story of Ichigo's changing fate?
(no subject) - flippantsoup on March 19th, 2010 06:01 pm (UTC) (Expand)
(no subject) - qwirky on March 19th, 2010 06:08 pm (UTC) (Expand)
(no subject) - flippantsoup on March 19th, 2010 06:11 pm (UTC) (Expand)
cutepoison89: rukiagorgeouscutepoison89 on March 19th, 2010 06:15 pm (UTC)
Awww but I like making fun of him for saying that. *brb making manip*
zealot1138: zealot1138 on March 19th, 2010 06:47 pm (UTC)
I appreciate accuracy so thanks for this!
Phoenix Hawk's Deep Corefmphoenixhawk on March 19th, 2010 08:50 pm (UTC)
[First comment for me here. Yay?]

Sometimes, I read these and I wonder if Kubo-san really wants this to be the story of Aizen destroying the world. Or if he's trying to find a way to move the story on, and can't seem to find the right path. I hesitate to say he's completely lost, because my armor isn't completely flame-proof. I'd say it's time for either the cavalry to show up, (Tatsuke, maybe? She's got some sense of WTF is going on) or for a new character. Maybe a member of the Royal Guard who's immune to illusions? (Yeah, I got this idea for a character back at the end of the SS arc. But it's not my story, so...)

Anyway, speculation about this particular issue: It occurs to me that perhaps Aizen needs someone with a great deal of power to finish breaking the seals of the Hogokyu, who has mastered both the powers of a Soul Reaper and a Hollow. The Espada may have been a failed attempt. Aizen knew about Ichigo's heritage, and when he showed up to save Rukia, that may have given Aizen the idea to use our poor orange-haired protagonist.
_debbiechan__debbiechan_ on March 19th, 2010 08:58 pm (UTC)

Aizen knew about Ichigo's heritage, and when he showed up to save Rukia, that may have given Aizen the idea to use our poor orange-haired protagonist.

Now something along those lines doesn't seem outside the realm of possibility. But Ichigo wasn't Aizen's preoccupation during SS; the hougyoku was, and any speculation that Aizen had anything planned pre-SS is just preposterous.
(no subject) - fmphoenixhawk on March 19th, 2010 09:03 pm (UTC) (Expand)
(no subject) - qwirky on March 19th, 2010 09:14 pm (UTC) (Expand)
(no subject) - fmphoenixhawk on March 19th, 2010 09:25 pm (UTC) (Expand)
(no subject) - fmphoenixhawk on March 19th, 2010 09:30 pm (UTC) (Expand)
(no subject) - _debbiechan_ on March 19th, 2010 09:14 pm (UTC) (Expand)
georg_vanlunden: Reprezent. Du.georg_vanlunden on March 19th, 2010 09:10 pm (UTC)
Anyhow you slice it, things still boil down to one thing: Aizen is going to drop SOME kind of bomb next chapter, and that will be the thing to get upset and/or excited over. This chapter just hints at WHAT it is we're supposed to get excited/worried over.
_debbiechan__debbiechan_ on March 19th, 2010 09:12 pm (UTC)

This is very true. My heart rate has been up ever since the spoilers came out XD. I love it that the arc's winding down. Bombs are going to fall, yes.
*can't wait*
(no subject) - georg_vanlunden on March 19th, 2010 09:27 pm (UTC) (Expand)
stealthhumanstealthhuman on March 20th, 2010 12:52 am (UTC)
My fiance and I have been having a great time discussing how much it looks like Aizen is making one hell of a bluff by using obvious or easily obtained information to convince Ichigo he knows everything.

Ichigo met Rukia? No kidding!
Fight with Ishida? Aizen was a captain at the time, of course he's know about the Menos situation that resulted.
Fight with Renji? It was out in the open and Aizen had two captains on the ground to pass him the report. It's also likely that a shinigami pulling his shikai for the first time has a distinctive "feel" that any captain could recognize.
Guessing that he "took a step" toward his bankai against Kenpachi is no stretch. He survived against a captain, and the fight came between his first shikai and first bankai. A "step" is extremely vague and left Ichigo to fill in the large detail of what the step was (Zangetsu's appearance).
Step toward Hollowdom against Byakuya? Aizen has induced Hollowfication in so many Shinigami that it's certain he also knows what a shinigami's hollow bursting out of control "feels" like a mile away.
His most specific statement ("mastered your Hollow") is about the fight with Grimmjow, the one fight for which he was able to watch out the window/on his wall of TVs.
His vaguest statement, about Ulquiorra, requires ABSOLUTELY NO knowledge of the fight. All he needs to know is that Ichigo fought Ulquiorra (a safe bet, as Aizen set it up), Ichigo survived (obviously), and Ichigo obtained greater power somehow during it (Ichigo's reiatsu is probably different since Aizen was in Hueco Mundo, and his mask has changed). There's no need to assume that he saw, sensed, or received a report of a single bit of the battle.

Aizen isn't running anything here, he's a masterful cold reader. All he's doing is the same stuff that lets TV psychics convince people that they're talking to their dead uncle: Lead along with generalities and let the listener fill in the rest.
stealthhumanstealthhuman on March 20th, 2010 02:16 am (UTC)
... and, because this all sounds like it's based on "planned" rather than "expected" -- this also removes any need for Aizen to have literally "expected" outcomes to any of those fights or to even have been aware of them. Tell someone everything that's happened to them and then claim to have been watching it all play out with interest is a great way to scare the pants off of someone, especially when you've already demonstrated insane Xanatos Gambit skill. I can't wait to see what he tries to headtrip Ichigo into doing.
(Anonymous) on March 20th, 2010 02:48 am (UTC)
I agree with u on the binktopia(i don't like the substitutions) translations, but sleepyfans has translated wrong b4 as well. Example Bleach 387 page 4: going by raw scans it translates "what is with Hirako's release?" yet sleepy fans among others have it translated "what is Hirako's Bankai?" Now ive had this argument across many forums but all i'm saying is we have to take scanlations with a grain of salt unless u can read Japanese. Sometimes people just are wrong. (any questions email me yiazmat1983@hotmail.com)
oh gallant piglet,aizome on March 20th, 2010 03:45 am (UTC)
Re: translations
Yeah, we're all aware there are varying degrees of accuracy. Unfortunately the most accurate scanlations are not the fastest released. SleepyFans are fast, but not always accurate. Most people wait for Ju-Ni's before settling on what the "real" translation is. :)
Re: translations - (Anonymous) on March 20th, 2010 04:36 am (UTC) (Expand)
(Deleted comment)
Re: translations - (Anonymous) on March 20th, 2010 07:09 am (UTC) (Expand)
Re: translations - (Anonymous) on March 20th, 2010 07:11 am (UTC) (Expand)
Re: translations - (Anonymous) on March 20th, 2010 07:22 am (UTC) (Expand)
Re: translations - (Anonymous) on March 21st, 2010 10:30 am (UTC) (Expand)
Malva: orihime_happymalva_lv on March 20th, 2010 09:03 am (UTC)
I'm a translator (though not in the Japanese language) so things like this irk me. It's arrogant from a translator's side to think he/she can somehow "better" the original, regardless how serious or not the original material is. There are instances where changes are necessary so that the audience will understand, but this was not the case here. It sent fandom into spasms of far-reaching speculation as if there wasn't enough of that already.

Well, this just convinces me further that I should withhold final judgement on a chapter until I have access to a different translation than Binktopia's.
manonlechat: facepalmmanonlechat on March 20th, 2010 04:48 pm (UTC)
In terms of overblown evil villain cliche, am I the only one who doesn't see a huge difference in Aizen's use of the word "planned" versus the word "expected"? If he turns out to have had something to do with Grand Fisher, I'm going to scream.