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24 February 2010 @ 11:43 pm
Gene Simmons' Son Plagiarizing Bleach?  
Is Bleach being copied and passed off as an original American comic called Incarnate by Nick Simmons, son of Gene Simmons?



note to non-Bleach readers: all the pictures are labeled, but generally, BLEACH is in black-and-white while INCARNATE is in color.

Side by side from cuddl.


Original pages.


Overlay by aizome


Leftmost: Bleach
Center: Incarnate
Rightmost: overlay (thank you shaolin)


This batch: thanks, cuddl, lackasexical, & CorpusDei@BA.


Merger by aizome


Thanks shaolin & stealthhuman for this comparison.
Left: Bleach
Right: Incarnate


lackasexical for this overlay below.


Incarnate


Bleach


Overlay by lackasexical


Thanks cuddl


Overlay by lackasexical


Thanks cuddl


Overlay by Rubine on Encyclopedia Dramatica


From cuddl:


Leftmost: Incarnate
Rightmost: Bleach
Center Two: overlays by shaolin


Thanks cuddl


Bleach, Bleach, Bleach


Overlay from lackasexical


cuddl


Overlay by lackasexical


From cuddl
Left: Incarnate
Right: Bleach


Overlay by lackasexical


From foodisverygood
Incarnate


Bleach


From jenny_jade

Left: Bleach
Right: Incarnate


Left: Incarnate
Right: Bleach


Overlay by lackasexical


Thanks cuddl


Overlay from Rubine at Encyclopedia Dramatica


Top Color: Incarnate
Bottom B&W: Bleach


Overlay by lackasexical


Incarnate


Overlay by lackasexical


From jenny_jade
Bleach


Incarnate


Overlay by kawree


Alternate overlay by lackasexical


overlay and pics from lackasexical.
Left: Bleach
Right: Incarnate




Comparison from stealthhuman.

Left: Bleach
Right: Incarnate


Incarnate


fanart of Bleach character Grimmjow by DeviantArtist rae here. Artist site..


Overlay from Rubine at Encyclopedia Dramatica


Thanks anon for this one.

Left: Incarnate
Right: ChaosVoid @ DeviantArt's S T A L K E R


This overlay was anonymously delivered; for non-Bleach readers, the black haired girl visible is Rukia Kuchiki from Bleach; the blonde girl would be Incarnate's.



Incarnate


Bleach


Bleach


Incarnate


NOTES

Many of these Bleach scans were cleaned by the beautiful people at JU-NI. You can visit them here.

A plaintive cry from Wikipedia-ers here who would like to remind people to strive for neutrality.

para_xylene wanted to point out that there are some very specific plot things that seem similar to whitewolf's VAMPIRE: THE MASQUERADE game, so you can take a look and see.

Hellsing comparison posts linked here here and here. and another one from stealthhuman.

More comparison posts linked here regarding the possible plagiarism of One Piece, Hellsing, Deadman Wonderland, Death Note, Naruto, Lupin the 3rd, Neon Genesis Evangelion, The Sandman, Full Metal Alchemist, Wolf's Rain, Death Note, and YGO.

Another comparison post with a DeviantArt by Robbin Graves. from cuddl

RE: THE MOVIE POSTER SIMILARITY. eironoforos would like to say that that picture is actually used by the people who were distributing Incarnate, and not evidence of plagiarism on Nick Simmons' part. Please don't discuss it as such; thank you!

An anon dropped this gift off from Nick Simmons' favorites on DA.

jimsupreme would like to point out the following...

i've been following the whole nick Simmons/incarnate thing for months and was probably the first to mention his ripping off of bleach, hellsing, one piece etc. please feel free to link to my Youtube Show Geeking Out episode # 89 where I first reviewed the book # 98 where I reviewed # 2 #98 where I reviewed #2.

I contacted Radical , Viz and dark horse months ago about this but, at least something is finally being done...
.

Lastly, any other BLEACH manga pics in the thread that weren't credited are probably me; but of course, they are all drawn by KUBO TITE.


Incarnate information



CONTACT INFORMATION

Incarnate's Publishers: RADICAL COMICS
Los Angeles (Corporate Headquarters)
Radical Publishing
7421 Beverly Blvd
Los Angeles, CA 90036
P: 323-874-4400
F: 323-874-4422
E: radical@radicalcomics.com

VIZ COMICS, the North American license holders for Bleach.
Mailing Address:
VIZ Media, LLC
P.O. BOX 77010
San Francisco, CA 94107

Internet Contact Form (no email addy):

http://www.viz.com/about/contact/contact.php

SHUEISHA, the JP publishers for Bleach.

Shueisha Inc
5-10, 2-Chome, Hitotsubashi, Chiyoda-Hu
101 80 05, Tokyo
JAPAN (NIPPON)

telephone:
+81 (3) 3230 6379

website URL:
http://www.shueisha.co.jp/

editor: Hinoshi Yamazahi

http://www.penrose-press.com/idd/card.php?INDEX=PUB2338&SUBJECT=ALL

Thanks nomoreprinces for the JP contact info.

For the record, I don't care that it's Gene Simmons' son; however, if they're going to try to use some musician's name as a way to sell work that may be copied from another author, I might as well use that same name to gather some attention to such potential copying. Hence the sensationalist subject title.

I'm not the one who caught this; I'm just passing on this message. It came from this original GAMEFAQS thread: by superbot400 here.

It then went to Bleach Asylum; thank you CorpusDei from this thread for many of your first comparisons.

ETA 2: Wow there are a lot of comments in a very short amount of time.
ETA 3: OKAY, if you still have comparison pics, go ahead and post them in the comments. Please do NOT, however, encourage any conspiracies or encourage any harassment... we don't need this comm to get wrapped up in that. You guys are still Bleachness, be classy. Read _debbiechan_'s comment here for clarification.
ETA 4: More pictures.... looks like the Ulquihime scenes are a big hit with Mr. Simmons.
ETA 5: Pictures are going up as I get them in. Thanks people.
ETA 6: KUBO-SENSEI does in fact know.
ETA #9000: Everyone, please stop saying Mr. Nick Simmons replied on Facebook; that one is almost undoubtedly a troll.

KUBO-SENSEI'S TWEETS

From tobu_ishi right here.

So, uh, from yesterday night until this morning, there've been an amazing number of messages from overseas fans along the lines of "There's a manga imitating BLEACH in America!" Well, I had a look at the site and I don't understand English that well, but I think what's written there is something like "It's a manga drawn by Gene Simmons' son, Nick Simmons."

-and-

The fact that Gene Simmon's son is a manga-ka disturbs me more than whether he's really copying or not.

Translator's note: (There have been a lot of mistranslations due to Kubo's use of the word mitai, which means 'something like', but which is a homonym for the differently written word meaning 'want to see'. If he's interested in reading Incarnate, he hasn't said so. Also, a lot of people have translated ki ni naru ('disturbed/worried') as 'interested' (ki ni iru). Figured I'd try and help sort that out.)

FINAL ETA:

Everyone in Bleach fandom who has stepped up to devote time to putting up comparisons and panel-matching to the original work, I really appreciate it. You guys are wonderful -- flat out. To everyone who is keeping a cool head through this incredibly frustration stuff, thank you.

Please cut the conspiracy talk here on Bleachness --- we're not an anonymous troll site, okay, no plotting here --- and no speculation of nasty fates for Mr. Simmons. Seriously. Do not feed trolls, either.

To all the people who ended up on Bleachness for the first time ever or in a very long time, a friendly welcome and please enjoy your stay.


A nice timeline here of the entire business from lightina_hime

Round-up of News Stories:

2/25/2010 Anime News Network: Incarnate Halted over Alleged Bleach Plagiarism

2/25/2010 Comic Book Resources: Radical Halts Nick Simmons' Incarnate Amid Claims of Plagiarism

2/25/2010 Oh No They Didn't

2/25/2010 Gene Simmons' Kid is a...

2/25/2010 Geeks of Doom: Nick Simmons Accused of Plagiarism for Incarnate

2/26/2010 CNN Go.com: Gene Simmons' Son Accused of Bleach Plagiarism

2/27/2010 Magnetic Rose: Guest Post - Fans Accuse Nick Simmons of Plagiarizing Bleach

3/1/2010 Nick Simmons Releases Statement, Takes No Responsibility

3/1/2010 New York Times: Comic Book Creator Accused of Plagiarism

3/2/2010 Magnetic Rose: Nick Simmons Statement on Plagiarism Accusations Claims “Homage” to Bleach Artist

3/2/2010 Naked Singularity: What You Give To a Thief is Stolen

3/2/2010 Topless Robot: Nick Simmons Responds...

3/2/2010 ICv2: Nonapology apology

3/2/2010 Icarus: Falsehoods and Wishful Thinking

Some Legal News Articles

3/3/2010 Nick Simmons, the Internet Mob, and Copyright

3/3/2010 Understanding Incarnate and Comic Book Plagiarism

Miscellaneous Links

Encyclopedia Dramatica: Incarnate

Facebook Group: Calling For Legal Action Against Nick Simmons for Plagiarism

RESPONSE FROM INCARNATE'S PUBLISHERS



ETA 03/01/2010: Mr. Simmons' statement from his publicist here.

“Like most artists I am inspired by work I admire. There are certain similarities between some of my work and the work of others. This was simply meant as an homage to artists I respect, and I definitely want to apologize to any Manga fans or fellow Manga artists who feel I went too far. My inspirations reflect the fact that certain fundamental imagery is common to all Manga. This is the nature of the medium.

I am a big fan of Bleach, as well as other Manga titles. And I am certainly sorry if anyone was offended or upset by what they perceive to be the similarity between my work and the work of artists that I admire and who inspire me.”
 
 
Current Mood: ticked off
 
 
 
pomona on February 25th, 2010 02:53 am (UTC)
About Wikipedia. :C
GUYS. I understand that you are very upset and I understand that you want to be heard but, on Wikipedia at least, you are doing it wrong.

On Wikipedia you're supposed to sound like you're writing a mixture of a paper for your teacher and an objective newspaper article. You're not supposed to sound colloquial, and you're not supposed to sound like an outraged, angry fan. Wikipedia prefers a more...professional tone.

More to the point, you are NOT allowed to use "biased" terms like "blatant plagarism." "Blatant" is a loaded, bad word to use. You are not supposed to say "Many many many fans." Instead, you should say "Numerous fans," or just "Many fans." Saying "many" multiple times just makes you sound like a kid. You're not supposed to say "MR. SIMMONS IS HAVING AN EDIT WAR WITH US ON HIS OTHER PAGE BAWW." People don't read that and go "Oh what a mean guy he is;" people read that and say "And that trivial information belongs in a srs bsns encyclopedia...why?"

People take Wikipedia extremely seriously, and if you also want to be taken seriously, you have to play by their rules. Or start your own wiki. I didn't write these rules, but I'm just telling you how it goes over there.

I'm a professional editor (proofreader), and I like Bleach, and I'm trying to help by making you guys sound more professional, but people keep undoing my edits because they think that if they say "BLATANT PLAGARISM" it will somehow garner sympathy and I AM GETTING VERY ANNOYED. So I thought I'd yell here and hopefully someone will find this buried at the very bottom of the comments.

On Wikipedia, I'm "SaltwaterSky." Please let me help. @_@
Kylarakarenai on February 25th, 2010 02:55 am (UTC)
Re: About Wikipedia. :C
I'll put a note in the post reminding people NOT to go vigilante -- though I'll warn you, this is huge EVERYWHERE right now, hundreds and hundreds of people looking at GameFaqs, Bleach Asylum, Naruto Fan, Reddit, etc. You should be really afraid right now.

You have my sympathies. Man, it must be insane trying to keep that post neutral right now.

Edited at 2010-02-25 02:55 am (UTC)
pomona on February 25th, 2010 03:03 am (UTC)
Re: About Wikipedia. :C
Oh my goodness! People listened! ...I feel so relieved now. T_T (tears of joy)

Now let's see if they'll let me put in proper citations XD
(Anonymous) on February 25th, 2010 12:23 pm (UTC)
My only question:
Is this on Encyclopedia Dramatica yet? LOL
Re: My only question: - (Anonymous) on February 25th, 2010 11:54 pm (UTC) (Expand)
Re: My only question: - (Anonymous) on February 26th, 2010 12:54 am (UTC) (Expand)
manonlechat: comfort Spirited Awaymanonlechat on February 25th, 2010 03:00 am (UTC)
Re: About Wikipedia. :C
I don't envy you your job tonight! But good luck and thank you. You have my admiration.
gazette on February 25th, 2010 03:06 am (UTC)
THIS.
Tim Horton McBrewskicupcakesusie on February 25th, 2010 03:07 am (UTC)
Re: About Wikipedia. :C
You may want to think about locking that entry (if it hasn't been already) until the shitstorm has passed.
pomona on February 25th, 2010 03:11 am (UTC)
Re: About Wikipedia. :C
I'm not really a srs bsns Wikipedia person--all I really do is wander around editing things here and there--so I have no idea how to go about doing that!

Do you know how?
Re: About Wikipedia. :C - cupcakesusie on February 25th, 2010 03:16 am (UTC) (Expand)
Rachel Keslensky: Observant 'Sawlastres0rt on February 25th, 2010 03:15 am (UTC)
Re: About Wikipedia. :C
As long as we're on this, could someone secure the license on that overlay animation?

I uploaded it earlier, but I don't have upload access on the English Wikipedia and Wikimedia commons doesn't allow fair use images (which means it'll be deleted within the week if nobody secures it / fixes the license).
pomona on February 25th, 2010 03:19 am (UTC)
Re: About Wikipedia. :C
I will see what I can do!
Re: About Wikipedia. :C - lastres0rt on February 25th, 2010 03:24 am (UTC) (Expand)
Re: About Wikipedia. :C - pomona on February 25th, 2010 03:24 am (UTC) (Expand)
Re: About Wikipedia. :C - lastres0rt on February 25th, 2010 03:30 am (UTC) (Expand)
(Anonymous) on February 25th, 2010 03:28 am (UTC)
Re: About Wikipedia. :C
I also have been having to re-edit many non-professional edits, including ones calling Nick Simmons a douchebag and a blatant ripoff. These kind of statements are not helping our cause, we need to keep it legit and as unbiased as possible. I saw you on there SaltWaterSky, I am 76.180.19.14 (LOL, I should just log in to wikipedia I guess), aka CorpusDei from BA. Keep up the good work.
Adam Eppadam_epp on February 25th, 2010 03:42 am (UTC)
Re: About Wikipedia. :C
The word "blatant" is totally appropriate in this instance. It's obvious that Simmons Jr. is copying Kubo if you compare the panels, and it's a claim that can be made objectively as someone unfamiliar with either series can recognize the clear similiarities when the artwork is put side-by-side. In fact, I'd say you're understating the level of plagiarism if you don't use the word "blatant" in this instance, and I could say that understatement indicates bias as well.

I agree with the other advice for writing articles on Wikipedia, however.
Re: About Wikipedia. :C - r0ck3tsci3ntist on February 25th, 2010 04:19 am (UTC) (Expand)
Re: About Wikipedia. :C - adam_epp on February 25th, 2010 04:27 am (UTC) (Expand)
Re: About Wikipedia. :C - r0ck3tsci3ntist on February 25th, 2010 04:29 am (UTC) (Expand)
Re: About Wikipedia. :C - adam_epp on February 25th, 2010 04:32 am (UTC) (Expand)
Re: About Wikipedia. :C - (Anonymous) on March 1st, 2010 08:39 pm (UTC) (Expand)
Re: About Wikipedia. :C - adam_epp on March 1st, 2010 09:33 pm (UTC) (Expand)
cetriyacetriya on February 25th, 2010 04:43 am (UTC)
Re: About Wikipedia. :C
wheres the link to the wiki?
Re: About Wikipedia. :C - (Anonymous) on February 25th, 2010 09:10 pm (UTC) (Expand)
ljmydayaway on February 25th, 2010 09:17 pm (UTC)
Re: About Wikipedia. :C
If people want to b'aww about it hardcore, they should probably check out Encylopedia Dramatica. They have a tracing page. Have fun.
scottyquickscottyquick on February 26th, 2010 03:10 am (UTC)
Re: About Wikipedia. :C
I've never met a real live Wikipedia editor!
Re: About Wikipedia. :C - pomona on February 27th, 2010 09:19 pm (UTC) (Expand)