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28 December 2009 @ 12:29 pm
No Drambuie tonight dear (Make Fandom What You Want it to Be)  
Well, well, well, there were metalinks to my previous entry about shipping? There were fandomsecrets?



No Drambuie tonight dear, I have a headache.  At least it’s not one of those killer migraines that makes Goku hurl Kamehameha one after another under my left eye. Probably muscle tension from knowing that there aren’t Bleach chapter spoilers to wait for this week. And strain from having been directed to fandomsecrets this morning.

And damn it all to hell, I thought fandom had come a long long way from the days when on my old DBZ board I had to manage complaints from members who found avatars depicting yaoi kisses offensive and asked me to remove them.

 

Well, I didn’t remove the avies. I thought it was just ridiculous that some fandom administration was supposed to cater to everyone’s prejudices, kiss all boo-boos acquired because of bias or taste, and manage all little speshul snowflake feelings in a temperature-controlled freezer.

 

And this morning I read that someone is just sick and tired of IchiRukis being so superior and holier than thou about their canon-ness as a foregone conclusion and how it’s just hurtful to slashers that these people don’t express a little more humility.

 

My response? Grow a spine. You’re responsible for your own feelings. I’m not going to advise any of my IchiRuki friends to pretend to be humble or be anything other than who they are. They’re smug bastards many of them. Deal with it

 

I was once told that it was “stupid” of me to “go on the Internet” and say that I thought IchiRuki was pretty much a done deal in Bleach. Well, what’s the worse that could happen to me if I’m wrong? I’m wrong. No skin off my back. My self-esteem isn’t tied up in that one proclamation. This same person who seemed appalled that I was so bold as to predict an ending of Bleach has gone on the mighty Internet and posted plenty things that would embarrass me if I’d posted them, so I guess we’re even.

 

When I got into the Bleach fandom some five or six years ago I remember noting how there seemed to be a lot of multi-shippers—and in fact, lots of het shippers who were also yaoi shippers. Lots of yaoi fangirls told me that IchiRuki was their first het ship because “Rukia was a worthy shipmate.”  I was tickled as could be with the sort of groovy tolerance I hadn’t seen in my previous fandom (the DBZ shipping crowd tended to divide along the lines of high romance Bulma/Vegeta and high kink Goku/Vegeta—I personally loved both, being the little sicko I am). But then as soon as I tiptoed into Bleach yaoi corners and started writing a good deal of IchiIshi fic, I started getting hate mail and a couple yaoi-fangirls found my IshiHime shipping offensive enough to  yell at me for demeaning Ishida’s character.

 

Is everyone just bored because school’s out right now? Was there a lot of family holiday stress and you’ve got to take it out somewhere?  I’ve noticed an upswing in pissiness in my Bleach fandom. If only we had the very embodiment of pissiness Byakuya and the very unpissy Kenpachi fighting Wrath personified in Yammy right now, maybe we wouldn’t be turning against one another.

 

Anyway, for anyone who wants this community to change and be less “IchiRuki-ish" or whatever, it’s up to you to contribute your essays and ideas and comments and fics. The fandomsecret poster claimed to be afraid of being eaten up alive if he or she dared express his concern over the massive IchiRuki smugness in the Bleach fandom. I do think the poster is right about that—our members would be like sharks to blood if people dared asked them to pretend to be more humble. But the truth is that if you don’t like something, you can work to change it. That’s how it goes in personal and social relationships, politics, and yes even fandom communities. Speak up, write comments, don’t be a coward. Silence is death.

 

Hey, when stepping out into the big bad scary of the Internet, I go armed with Urahara’s advice (it doesn’t always help me but just thinking of old Hat and Clogs makes me smile and put it in perspective that I’m about to argue about a Japanese comic, not the fate of the world):


If you dodge, “I won’t let them cut me”.
If you protect someone, “I won’t let them die”.
If you attack, “I’ll cut them”.

Well can’t you see…
… the resolve to cut you reflected in my sword

 

Don’t be afraid. Put on your headband of Great Justice and make the Bleach fandom what you want it to be.



 
 
 
incidents and accidents, hints and allegations: Dissidia - Firion/Cecil kissymaeveth on December 28th, 2009 06:45 pm (UTC)
*uses gratuitous man-kiss icon from a totally different fandom*

o___________O

Okay, it's official: People are NUTS. (I mean, I knew this. But still.)

As jaina can attest, I'm in the anything-but-IchiRuki camp. (I'm in the Ichigo/Ichigo's hand camp.) But how in the name of all that's holy is it being 'holier-than-thou' to say you believe your ship's gonna be canon? You're expressing an opinion and, well, um. Sorry it doesn't agree with someone else's? Is that a bad bad bad thing now? Geez.

For the record, I don't see 'massive IchiRuki smugness'. I've seen isolated examples. I've seen people saying point-blank they think it'll end up canon. (I could express my opinions on why I think it WON'T, but I ain't here to argue.) I don't feel somehow oppressed by IchiRuki-dom, or I wouldn't be in this comm to start with.

People need to grow the hell up and realize that there really IS room for everyone in the Bleach pool...even if their opinions differ. Now if you'll pardon me, I'm going to be in the Aizen/Gin hot tub.

(And it occurs to me that this could be somewhat disjointed...I think I had too much rum cake last night.)

Edited at 2009-12-28 06:47 pm (UTC)
_debbiechan__debbiechan_ on December 28th, 2009 07:33 pm (UTC)

Ooooh Aizen/Gin hot tub sounds really nice. So does rum cake since I'm feeling better now. The metalink to my post was from insanejournal? So said the friendly anon. I thought it might be f_w again and ewww, I just hate that place. I dunno, to me it people seemed to be wanting to mess with bleachness last night, but hey it's the holidays, why not?

Your comment made perfect sense.
(no subject) - maeveth on December 28th, 2009 07:46 pm (UTC) (Expand)
(no subject) - _debbiechan_ on December 28th, 2009 08:05 pm (UTC) (Expand)
(no subject) - maeveth on December 28th, 2009 08:08 pm (UTC) (Expand)
(no subject) - hinodeh on December 28th, 2009 08:21 pm (UTC) (Expand)
(no subject) - maeveth on December 28th, 2009 08:24 pm (UTC) (Expand)
(no subject) - hinodeh on December 28th, 2009 08:27 pm (UTC) (Expand)
(no subject) - r0ck3tsci3ntist on December 28th, 2009 08:30 pm (UTC) (Expand)
(no subject) - hinodeh on December 28th, 2009 08:35 pm (UTC) (Expand)
Grenat: virgoescarboucle on December 28th, 2009 06:48 pm (UTC)
If people are scared of being hurt because of random talk on teh internetz, maybe they should either:
-Drop internetz altogether
-grow some ballz
-start to think in another way than they are

Yeah, I don't know. I'm a gamer through and through, and I always assumed before joining fandom that people were guys until proven otherwise [that's what gamers assume automatically]. People grow spines on the gamers boards [I've seen people reply to other to go hang themselves, throw their computers away, grow some brain, stop sucking so much, ETC, ETC] and I'm sorry, but I think most comments are actually LULZ worthy.

So I was really startled when people were being all offensed by things that could be said on the boards - like, really? Is that all you got?

SO yeah, if people really believe their opinion are IMPORTANT LIKE OMGZ, then just post. If you're afraid of being eaten alive by US [whoohoo, I'm a cannibalz yeah, rock on!] maybe it's because their arguments are flawed and they WILL look like IDIOTS.

BOOH!!!
Kim!spartydragon on December 28th, 2009 07:12 pm (UTC)
... and I always assumed before joining fandom that people were guys until proven otherwise [that's what gamers assume automatically]

So THAT'S Why all of my guy friends are shocked that I'm a girl! XDDDDDDDDDDDD
(no subject) - escarboucle on December 28th, 2009 07:19 pm (UTC) (Expand)
(no subject) - spartydragon on December 28th, 2009 07:44 pm (UTC) (Expand)
(no subject) - escarboucle on December 28th, 2009 08:08 pm (UTC) (Expand)
(no subject) - littlemeantiger on December 28th, 2009 08:40 pm (UTC) (Expand)
(no subject) - escarboucle on December 28th, 2009 09:04 pm (UTC) (Expand)
(no subject) - littlemeantiger on December 28th, 2009 09:42 pm (UTC) (Expand)
(no subject) - horusguard76 on December 28th, 2009 10:33 pm (UTC) (Expand)
(no subject) - escarboucle on December 28th, 2009 11:15 pm (UTC) (Expand)
(no subject) - horusguard76 on December 29th, 2009 08:52 am (UTC) (Expand)
(no subject) - _debbiechan_ on December 29th, 2009 11:42 am (UTC) (Expand)
(no subject) - horusguard76 on December 29th, 2009 01:16 pm (UTC) (Expand)
(no subject) - spartydragon on December 29th, 2009 07:02 pm (UTC) (Expand)
(no subject) - _debbiechan_ on December 29th, 2009 10:20 pm (UTC) (Expand)
xmurcielagox on December 28th, 2009 06:49 pm (UTC)
hehehe I like it whenever people act like someone's pissed in their internet coffee when Ichiruki is mentioned. To me, the pairing is canon. Even if we don't get a "fairytale" ending with them kissing in the sunset you still know that there's something more then being "just friends."
r0ck3tsci3ntist - sorry, kidding: yoruichir0ck3tsci3ntist on December 28th, 2009 06:51 pm (UTC)
LOL, Encyclopedia Dramatic has the number of F_S, for sure: What is Fandom Secrets made of?
... heart-wrenching confessions about how two characters in some anime thing didn't end up together, or how a character died and it made the poster cry for weeks, or something equally lame, or how someone wants to screw a character whose name they picked out of a hat for the lulz.


(I find it amusing when the wankistas use F_S to make their passive/aggressive little sabbity stabs at people they are too cowardly to "face" on teh interwebs - all of which is incredibly hilarious)
_debbiechan__debbiechan_ on December 28th, 2009 07:00 pm (UTC)

ED scares me too. I checked out the Bleach entry because I heard I was on there but it wasn't bad. Every single time I'm directed to F_S, though, I'm all AAARGH. I can't stand that site. I've seen a few funnies but for the most part anonymity is one of my big squicks. XD
(no subject) - hinodeh on December 28th, 2009 07:13 pm (UTC) (Expand)
(no subject) - _debbiechan_ on December 28th, 2009 07:16 pm (UTC) (Expand)
(no subject) - littlemeantiger on December 28th, 2009 07:43 pm (UTC) (Expand)
(no subject) - hinodeh on December 28th, 2009 07:56 pm (UTC) (Expand)
(no subject) - r0ck3tsci3ntist on December 28th, 2009 08:36 pm (UTC) (Expand)
(no subject) - littlemeantiger on December 28th, 2009 08:51 pm (UTC) (Expand)
(Deleted comment)
(no subject) - r0ck3tsci3ntist on December 28th, 2009 08:38 pm (UTC) (Expand)
(no subject) - aizome on December 28th, 2009 10:22 pm (UTC) (Expand)
(no subject) - littlemeantiger on December 28th, 2009 07:40 pm (UTC) (Expand)
(no subject) - hinodeh on December 28th, 2009 07:53 pm (UTC) (Expand)
(no subject) - littlemeantiger on December 28th, 2009 08:10 pm (UTC) (Expand)
(no subject) - hinodeh on December 28th, 2009 08:15 pm (UTC) (Expand)
(no subject) - littlemeantiger on December 28th, 2009 08:20 pm (UTC) (Expand)
(no subject) - littlemeantiger on December 28th, 2009 08:27 pm (UTC) (Expand)
(no subject) - hinodeh on December 28th, 2009 08:28 pm (UTC) (Expand)
(no subject) - littlemeantiger on December 28th, 2009 08:29 pm (UTC) (Expand)
SEE IT IN ALL OF ITS GLORY - littlemeantiger on December 28th, 2009 08:16 pm (UTC) (Expand)
(no subject) - escarboucle on December 28th, 2009 08:09 pm (UTC) (Expand)
(no subject) - littlemeantiger on December 28th, 2009 08:12 pm (UTC) (Expand)
(no subject) - escarboucle on December 28th, 2009 08:17 pm (UTC) (Expand)
(no subject) - r0ck3tsci3ntist on December 28th, 2009 08:42 pm (UTC) (Expand)
(no subject) - littlemeantiger on December 28th, 2009 09:17 pm (UTC) (Expand)
Danielwdboldstar on December 28th, 2009 06:51 pm (UTC)
See, one reason I love(d?) Bleach fandom is that there's so many multi-shippers. I'm used to being in the middle of massive shipping wars like Gabrielle/Joxer vs. Gabrielle/Xena or Kim/Torres vs. Paris/Torres, so to come into a fandom where there was so much multishipping was pretty refreshing. Hell, I was right in the middle of it. Ichiruki (and later Ulquihime) is/was my OTP, but I find myself shipping pairings all over the fandom, even ones that contradict my OTPs like Ichitatsu and Ishihime, cracky ones like Adult!Yachiru/Bykuya and Lisa/Ryuuken, and even, a first for me, Yaoi and Yuri.

I don't wanna get too dramatic over the "sudden resurgence" of ship vs. ship battling in the fandom, because hell, it's probably existed all along and it's not like it's anything new. But still, I'll always remember Bleach fandom as the one that let me stop worrying about who shipped what and which side I was on and just have fun, and I'll be damned if I lose that fandom to wank.
_debbiechan_: Hanatarou Shipping CRISIS by Distilled_debbiechan_ on December 28th, 2009 06:58 pm (UTC)

True, yeah--I thought Bleach was an awesome fandom because Kubo had made SO MANY MANY great sexy characters all of whom could get together in all sorts of combos!
(no subject) - littlemeantiger on December 28th, 2009 07:58 pm (UTC) (Expand)
(no subject) - la_kalaka on December 28th, 2009 11:15 pm (UTC) (Expand)
hinodehhinodeh on December 28th, 2009 07:11 pm (UTC)
Why is it wrong or stupid to argue or believe that IchiRuki will be canon?

I mean, in Soul Eater fandom you can say the same thing about Maka/Soul, and yet I have to see anyone complain about how this ship's fans are waaay to smug.
Honestly, some people seem to think that you're only sane if you proclaim bullshit like "IchiRuki and IchiOri have qual chances of becoming canon" or "Well, it's obviously gonna be IchiOri 'cause Orihime is in love with him!".
But apparently believing that IchiRuki is a foregone conclusion is being biased and crazy.

Huh, I guess some IchiOri fans just can't bear to hear any opposition.
_debbiechan__debbiechan_ on December 28th, 2009 07:23 pm (UTC)
This fandom secrets person claimed to be a slasher. But anyway, I do hear this from time to time about how mothereffing crazy and bossy and dominant all IchiRuki shippers are in Bleach fandom and since, well, lots of these gals are really close friends of mine and I've seen their sweet sides, I get kinda huffy over this (I don't get huffy when people call Ishida a wimp in nurse's clothing but RL people bashing does get to me). Well, maybe sometimes SYN is a little scary there with her deadly accuracy about predicting Bleach events XD XD XD but other than that, pfffffft, why bother to complain about the big bad scary IchiRukis?

Ah, sometimes I feel so alone in my little bitty RenIshi ship that gets no doujinshi on Ebay--let me spend an hour making a graphic about it to post on an internet site for whiners like me.
/oops that was sarcasm

Edited at 2009-12-28 07:23 pm (UTC)
(no subject) - hinodeh on December 28th, 2009 07:34 pm (UTC) (Expand)
(no subject) - metaphore_art on December 28th, 2009 08:54 pm (UTC) (Expand)
(no subject) - escarboucle on December 28th, 2009 08:06 pm (UTC) (Expand)
(no subject) - littlemeantiger on December 29th, 2009 12:03 am (UTC) (Expand)
littlemeantiger on December 28th, 2009 07:52 pm (UTC)
Although I admit that I have F_S on watch, that's all that there is connected between me and that comm. I don't even bother to pay it a visit. Why do I have it on watch? I have no idea, I honestly did for the lulz. Although F_W is arrogantly annoying, it's a good wank collection history site, but apart from old wank re-cap (like good old Twilolz) there really is no point in visiting that site. Haters gonna hate. -shrug-

The Headband of Great Justice. It looks so shiny. *_*
ruinin fuckin' everything: it's a strange globeallelujah on December 28th, 2009 07:59 pm (UTC)
Ahhahahaa why should we stop the smugness?

But yeah. Make fandom what you want it to be. After all, I made crazy nnoinel shippers out of tons of people.
_debbiechan_: Nnoitra TONGUE_debbiechan_ on December 28th, 2009 08:11 pm (UTC)

You did, my fine young woman, you did indeed. I marveled at your promoting NelNoi-ness with an indefatigable spirit! It was fun to watch!
(no subject) - hinodeh on December 28th, 2009 08:12 pm (UTC) (Expand)
(no subject) - littlemeantiger on December 28th, 2009 09:16 pm (UTC) (Expand)
The Main Gauche of Enlightenmentvelvetsword on December 28th, 2009 08:53 pm (UTC)
Fresh from the desk of C. Lolly McBourbon Guildenstern:
Am I the only person who doesn't 'get' shipping?

Well, actually, maybe I do. It's like football, only for people who don't like football. Kinda like politics. For whatever random reason you select a team you like (said reasons may be rational or irrational) and then you cheer for it, to the detriment and rage of people who selected a different team. For me, however, I choose to ship quarterbacks. Sage Rosenfels/Chris Simms is my OTP of choice.

Generally when I approach a work of fiction I consume it, assess it, then I assign a label to what the work convinces me to believe are 'pairings'. These labels will either be 'good pairing', 'bad pairing', 'uninteresting pairing' or 'unbelievable pairing'. I work from there.

In 'harem' works like Ouran, etc, where they lead you to believe that multiple pairings are possible, I select the pairing I personally prefer the most, and roll from there. OTOH, in a harem show all the pairings are generally believeable and it comes down to weeaboo preferences. But that's harem shit.

To my somewhat bemused horror, Debbie a long time ago posted a whole bunch of MSN transcripts that I had with her, Ros, Syn, Jaimie, etc wherein I said something along the lines of 'I don't ship-- I just fucking read' and I meant it when I said it. Generally in a work of fiction that is NOT a harem, the author (unless he/she is a complete dumbshit) is trying to portray to you the state of the relationships amongst the characters. If you sit down and listen to what the author is trying to show/say to you, you are reading/seeing/understanding the kind of story he is trying to tell. For example-- a person with an axe to grind could read, say, "Pride and Prejudice" and make a case for Darcy nailing Bingley's sister, and why it's superior. That's cool and everything, but that's not what the author wanted you to take away from the story. Author intent matters. (We all know Elizabeth/Jane is OTP anyway.)

What irritates me more than willful ignorance towards the author's storyline, however, is what I call the 'Quickie reader' method. In this method the reader tries to assess the outcome and merit of a story by comparing it to something in the same genre. "Well, Story B is a romance like Story A, and it's set in a historical setting, and Characters A, B, and C resemble D, E, and F, so Story B is going to end up just like Story A."

STOP RIGHT THERE, ASSHOLES.

While there's some merit to the argument that genre can and will determine story setup (Sci-fi stories, romances etc usually have a lot of plot points and elements in common) the idea that you can accurately predict ALL works by comparing them to similar ones makes me want to skullfuck the whole internet. Did .hack turn out exactly like 'Ender's Game'? Did 'Death Note' turn out like 'Yu Yu Hakusho'? Did 'Abyss' turn out exactly like 'Sphere'? Did 'Twilight' turn out exactly like 'The Vampire Diaries'? Did 'Pollyanna' turn out just like Anne of fucking Green Gables? No? "BUT HOW CAN THAT BE THEY'RE BOTH VIRTUAL REALITY BASED WAR GAMES/SHOUNEN MANGA/SCI-FI NOVELS/FICTIONAL WORKS FOR YOUNG WOMEN/VAMPIRE SHIT!1111!! THAT'S UNPOSSBILE, GUILDY!" Yeah well, fuck your theory.

OK, Ender's Game and .hack are rife with Sci-fi tropes. Death Note and Yu Yu Hakusho are both shounen manga with shinigami in them. Abyss and Sphere are both sci-fi stories set in the ocean that deal with an otherworldly force. Twilight and The Vampire Diaries are both vampire shit. Pollyanna and Anne of Green Gables are both about orphans with relentlessly optimistic personalities who go to live with spinsters. Oddly enough, ALL OF THESE STORIES DO NOT HAVE THE SAME OUTCOME, nor are the fates of the characters involved alike in any way, despite fitting into a series of tropes common to the genre. Seriously, fuck you if you base any ideology at ALL re: assessing a fictional work based on fucking tropes. Tropes provide a service to writers in that they can help or harm your work depending on how many you put in. Tropes are not a guideline to a fast and sloppy assessment of a fictional work. Fuck you right in your ear if you do this.

On that positive note, thus ends Guildy's end of the year rant.
littlemeantiger on December 28th, 2009 09:09 pm (UTC)
Re: Fresh from the desk of C. Lolly McBourbon Guildenstern:
-gasp-

That... that was awesome. Like, truly badass. Like WOW.

This is what I agree the most:

Did .hack turn out exactly like 'Ender's Game'? Did 'Death Note' turn out like 'Yu Yu Hakusho'? Did 'Abyss' turn out exactly like 'Sphere'? Did 'Twilight' turn out exactly like 'The Vampire Diaries'? Did 'Pollyanna' turn out just like Anne of fucking Green Gables? No? "BUT HOW CAN THAT BE THEY'RE BOTH VIRTUAL REALITY BASED WAR GAMES/SHOUNEN MANGA/SCI-FI NOVELS/FICTIONAL WORKS FOR YOUNG WOMEN/VAMPIRE SHIT!1111!! THAT'S UNPOSSBILE, GUILDY!" Yeah well, fuck your theory.

*plays the Ode to Joy song*

MY GOD I AGREE. It is true that originality has a basis of outer influence of at least 11%, but that doesn't mean that it will take the EXACT. SAME. DIRECTION. that the previous milestone went through. In any path, in any way. Hell, that influence may not even affect half a shit on the storyline if the writer is really that creative. So saying that Story A will end like C due to obvious homages and not so obvious similarities are friggin' wrong. Just... just read the actual stories dudes. What's going to cost you? Time? Wait. You cannot spare some time to actually read the story and enjoy it youselves, so instead you'll read summaries that will tell you about the 'story' that just might deprave you from having your own opinion on the series? OH MY GAWD ARE YOU F**KING KIDDING ME. D:
(Deleted comment)
Re: Oh so NSWF - littlemeantiger on December 28th, 2009 09:21 pm (UTC) (Expand)
Re: Oh so NSWF - velvetsword on December 28th, 2009 09:26 pm (UTC) (Expand)
Re: Oh so NSWF - littlemeantiger on December 28th, 2009 09:53 pm (UTC) (Expand)
(Deleted comment)
Amy: Naoto → Pissedamy_core on December 28th, 2009 08:55 pm (UTC)
What the? Now Yaoi fangirls are jealous of IchiRuki too or what? What's their problem? o__o;

Yes, we are smug. Because we have every right to be so. Shishou is the greatest to IchiRuki, he loves them and keeps spoiling us, IchiRuki fans, to no end. For which we love him dearly.

Why, for the love of God, WHY should we go around public forums catering to everyone and nodding at "Ichigo/Jidanbou has as much chances of becoming canon as IchiRuki!!!one!!eleven!!"?





Edited at 2009-12-28 08:58 pm (UTC)
littlemeantiger on December 28th, 2009 09:11 pm (UTC)
Because they're.. jealous? -shrug-

I'd like to make up a funny comeback to cheer ya all up, but really, that's all what's coming to mind. WTH fandom, WTH. Grow some balls will ya? :/
aeri: ichirenruki // death and all his friendsiluxe_love on December 28th, 2009 09:18 pm (UTC)
WHAT A SCARY PLACE.

Never knew that fandom_secrets existed and I wished I hadn't gone looking! It's interesting that the person claims to be suffocated by the smugness and holier-than-thou attitude of IchiRuki shippers. IDK, I've never encountered that before, but maybe because I'm one of them? (I don't think I sound arrogant...)

Is the manifesto the person's referring to karenai's Lust Arc essay? That wasn't even suppose to be an IchiRuki essay... And a 2009 shipping war? Geez, where have I been? Yeah, I know about the whole BA fiasco about linking to shipping essays, but I didn't know it was THAT big of a deal.

Aw, whatever. People say whatever they want to say on the internet. I used to get hung up whenever somebody told me my idea was stupid or something like that but experience changes that. (I bow down to all of you shipping veterans, though!)
Kylarakarenai on December 28th, 2009 10:32 pm (UTC)
This is the second time now that someone has referred to my essay as an IchiRuki essay, and I would like to take the moment to say something to the public at large...

1. The author is IchiRuki. The author is also a feminist. Does this mean it is an essay about feminism? No. In this case, the essay is also not IchiRuki.

2. The essay's thesis is disproving the canon likelihood of IchiOri. Disproving one thing does not mean proving the opposite, if the opposite even WAS IchiRuki, which it's not necessarily.

3. Dude. I deliberately didn't talk about IchiRuki at all and on purpose. Pfffft.

Edited at 2009-12-28 10:35 pm (UTC)
(no subject) - iluxe_love on December 28th, 2009 10:41 pm (UTC) (Expand)
(no subject) - karenai on December 29th, 2009 04:49 am (UTC) (Expand)
(no subject) - littlemeantiger on December 28th, 2009 10:46 pm (UTC) (Expand)
(no subject) - karenai on December 29th, 2009 04:51 am (UTC) (Expand)
(no subject) - littlemeantiger on December 29th, 2009 11:55 am (UTC) (Expand)
(no subject) - littlemeantiger on December 29th, 2009 12:27 pm (UTC) (Expand)
metaphore_art on December 28th, 2009 09:32 pm (UTC)
Eh, didn't we go through the big bad IchiRuki fandom thing last year? Everyone hates the big ship for a multitude of reasons, I get it, but now being vocal about the fact that we think it'll be IchiRuki and why instead of waiving our fans coyly in front of our faces and demurring ruins the fandom for other shippers, specifically, slash shippers? Really?

But IchiOri or RenRuki or UraYoru or UlquiOri or IshiHime or ByaHisa or GinRan or HitsuMomo or IchiNell or [insert any one of multitudes of het pairs] when they do it, it's just fine. And don't tell me they don't get arrogant and self-assured, because, believe me, many of them are convinced they're right, too, and they'll tell you in no uncertain terms why, so...Are you fucking kidding me right now?

And you know what the funniest thing about it is? The big bad essay/manifesto/whatever that has everyone up in arms WASN'T A PRO-ICHIRUKI ARGUMENT. It was an argument about why the author doesn't think IchiOri works. Nothing in anything that was argued there said anything about why IchiIshi doesn't work, or UraIchi or RenIchi or whatever OP's slash ship of choice is. It did talk about authorial intent, but if that didn't enter your mind about being a possible obstacle before then in this particular situation...I'll just leave it at that.

In fact, just hypothetically assuming that IchiRuki does control all other shipper's feelings with what we say, it seems to me that the majority of IchiRuki fans don't concentrate on debating/arguing against/ragging on/pick your poison the slash ships. Likewise, I've always thought that the slash ships couldn't give a rat's ass what IchiRuki fans say.

But, you know what, I will say this: You reap what you sow. Nothing is stopping OP from declaring her love for [whatever her ship might be] - not even the big bad fandom reaction - because fandom doesn't care what anyone individually ships. At the most, OP will get people who post to agree with her and fangirl with her, people who say I don't see it, but whatever, and maybe a couple of people who say something stupid. Speaking as a member of the fandom that she's apparently scared shitless of, I can pretty much guarantee her that the majority of us wouldn't say anything one way or another. We don't care.

However, OP is right in the sense that if you put yourself out there and post on a public community board arguing something that you know that half the fandom is going to vocally oppose, or at least debate (i.e., "you people are full of it, and your ship will not be canon, but mine will"), get ready for some opposition and/or debate. These are the rules we play by. The assumption is that you put it there, communally, to have a discussion communally. And the community never sees it your way. They see it their way - each and every one. Sometimes they coincide with you, sometimes they don't, but don't seriously expect everyone else to adjust themselves because you happen to see it differently.
Kylarakarenai on December 29th, 2009 05:03 am (UTC)
There is, as you say, no ship that doesn't have shippers that are absolutely and 100% full of arrogance and self-assurance over their canon. I guess they have to exist to counter the people that say "well, this is a shounen, so there's not really any romance and you're ALL wrong..."

It did talk about authorial intent, but if that didn't enter your mind about being a possible obstacle before then in this particular situation...I'll just leave it at that.

:PPPPPPP

IchiRuki has no beef with yaoi ships. We've never had problems before, and hopefully, we won't start now. For similar but different reasons, it's also why we have no problems with Ulquihime; our goals do not conflict, and neither do our ships. Really, I would appreciate people not trying to start a bitch fight now.

Speaking as the writer of the big bad essay manifesto, I cannot control how people use it, nor can I control the fact that people really shouldn't take it personally when I argue that a fictional couple isn't going to be canon. But speaking of things that one sees and cannot control, I cannot control the fact that Kubo Tite promotes IchiRuki; I just have to live with it. ^^
(no subject) - metaphore_art on December 29th, 2009 03:36 pm (UTC) (Expand)
(Deleted comment)
Kylara: crobat =_=karenai on December 29th, 2009 05:08 am (UTC)
It's sour grapes for sure. People need to grow a pair.
sarcastic__bird on December 28th, 2009 10:18 pm (UTC)
I never heard of fandomsecrets. I just spent my whole evening reading it. Why oh why...?
_debbiechan_: iNSaNITY is ReLaTIVE_debbiechan_ on December 28th, 2009 10:20 pm (UTC)

Yeah, when I first found out about it I spent hours on it... but eventually it left me feeling like I had to take a bath so I quit the site. There were some funny and cute things on there but there were too many things there that made me ... sad is the word I'm looking for. Maybe depressed.
Why...? I'll tell you. - littlemeantiger on December 28th, 2009 10:27 pm (UTC) (Expand)
(no subject) - karenai on December 28th, 2009 10:34 pm (UTC) (Expand)
(no subject) - chuuni on December 29th, 2009 03:32 am (UTC) (Expand)
(no subject) - (Anonymous) on December 29th, 2009 09:58 am (UTC) (Expand)
(no subject) - chuuni on December 29th, 2009 10:01 am (UTC) (Expand)
(no subject) - (Anonymous) on December 29th, 2009 12:48 pm (UTC) (Expand)
(no subject) - abarai4 on December 28th, 2009 10:48 pm (UTC) (Expand)
(no subject) - littlemeantiger on December 28th, 2009 10:57 pm (UTC) (Expand)
(no subject) - abarai4 on December 28th, 2009 11:02 pm (UTC) (Expand)
(no subject) - littlemeantiger on December 28th, 2009 11:37 pm (UTC) (Expand)
(no subject) - (Anonymous) on December 29th, 2009 12:58 pm (UTC) (Expand)
(no subject) - (Anonymous) on December 29th, 2009 01:08 pm (UTC) (Expand)
(no subject) - littlemeantiger on December 29th, 2009 01:23 pm (UTC) (Expand)
(no subject) - (Anonymous) on December 29th, 2009 02:02 pm (UTC) (Expand)
oh gallant piglet,: DRAMAaizome on December 28th, 2009 10:28 pm (UTC)
*insert fill-in-the-blank fandom "saved my life" secret*

Yeah, it's the holidays. People are bored, restless, and butthurt over having to deal with family gatherings.
littlemeantiger on December 28th, 2009 10:51 pm (UTC)
OH THE DRAMA. *insert obligatory lighting sound effect here*