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19 October 2009 @ 04:27 pm
Who says Women Don't Save the Guys in Bleach?  
I'm getting really tired of all the KUBO IS A SEXIST accusations and the charges that women in Bleach are damsels in distress and wouldn't it be nice for a woman to do the saving once in a while?

In response to this:

I offer these these instances of WOMEN doing the saving:

Rukia saves Ichigo from Grimmjow:








Rukia saves Ichigo, Chad, Ishida and the Great Desert Brothers from the Sand Monster:







Nel saves Ichigo from Nnoitra:






Those are examples from the HM arc; if you want to go back to the SS arc, Yoruichi was the mentor of Ichigo during that adventure and she’s the one who swooped in and saved him from Byakuya on the bridge. Her strategizing (along with the usual Shounen genre good luck) kept the gang alive, and it was her flying cape, a Shihounin family magical gadget, that allowed Ichigo to rescue Rukia so gallantly from the execution tower in the arc’s finale.


Please stop calling Kubo-sensei a sexist when you don’t have the evidence. It’s a sexist world, maybe, and fighting manga is an inherently sexist genre, but don’t tell me that Kubo doesn’t write strong women who do great things in battle and yes, they suffer the consequences of battle—a warrior who falls, like Matsumoto falls to Allon, is not a woman in a refrigerator or a victim. She’s just another a warrior. Kubo’s an equal opportunity impaler and molester as I’ve said before—just count the number of guys who have been stabbed through the stomach when you’re bringing up girls who’ve been poked, count all the male dismemberments versus the female ones, and remember that Szayel tentacle-molested Ishida and Renji before he ever got his sleazy reiatsu on Nemu.



tolstoyfan on October 19th, 2009 09:41 pm (UTC)


If Kubo was a sexist, why in the hell does he make these strong women with strong characters?

Rukia, who I won't even go into much, is probably the prime example of this. Damsel in distress? LOLWUT? Last time she actually needed saving was in the Soul Society arc when she was POWERLESS. Even then, she still put others' lives before her own. If she was a damsel in distress, then you would have expected her to scream for Ichigo to come save her. And...she didn't *elmo* Beauty, brains, and strength in one tiny package.

Yoruichi-Another strong female character. Extremely wily and a powerful former captain, with a kickass command of different martial arts. Beauty, brains, and strength in one.







etc. etc.

I could spend all day typing counterarguments against the crap these type of people post, but it's not worth it. I thank you Debbie for once again injecting common sense into the community and calling out the people who post this crap. Funniest thing is I remember this particular post from a forum that I was browsing earlier today.
_debbiechan__debbiechan_ on October 19th, 2009 09:57 pm (UTC)

ACTUALLY Rukia required saving in the HM arc when Shinji showed up in his long riders coat to save the day and challenge Grimmjow. Ichigo even thanked him later, I believe, with a note as he was abandoning his Visored training to save Orihime in HM.

But the guys were all saved by the Captains in HM--Kenpachi kept Ichigo from being squashed, Mayuri came in to save Ishida (talk about humiliating) and Renji, and Byakuya was on the scene for Rukia. Don't single out Rukia as being the DiD here when ALL the rescuers were in need of being saved because they charged into HM with no plan and their Daddy and Mommy figures had to step in.

Luck only carried the five rescuers so far in this adventure--EVERYONE had to be saved, Ichigo included. He went out fighting, though and he's still fighting--so you can't call him (or Rukia who shot that last kidou blast at Yammy knowing FULL WELL IT WOULD MAKE NO DIFFERENCE) a DiD. A DiD is someone who cries for help and doesn't fight.
Grenatescarboucle on October 19th, 2009 09:41 pm (UTC)
Only butthurt people would say that about Rukia being saved. Last time Ichigo actually saved her was back in SS DAYS.

That's all I have to say :elmo
navijinaviji on October 20th, 2009 03:16 am (UTC)
(no subject) - vkikay on October 20th, 2009 02:37 pm (UTC) (Expand)
Sea: pic#91238569khyata on October 19th, 2009 09:52 pm (UTC)
People who arrive at such 'conclusions':

- must be reading the manga with their eyes closed or are terminally blind.

- must have a severe case of ADHD or short term memory loss. Hard, I know.

If any of these debilitating physical setbacks aren't applicable, then its probably a severe case of teh butthurtors, since manga canon doesn't fit with their extremely myopic world view of what bleach 'ought to be'.

Too bad.

*plays the world's smallest violin*

Edited at 2009-10-19 09:54 pm (UTC)
(Anonymous) on October 22nd, 2009 02:39 pm (UTC)
These are all people who think that all male manga-ka are like Kishit who is sexist TO THE CORE, and read Tv Tropes 24/7.

Because reading Tv Tropes >>>>>>>> reading the manga. TRUFAX.

All they say is the truth. IchiRuki will never happen because according to them they are the straight Will and Grace of this fandom. It's not like their feelings will ever evolve from a deep friendship into something more, because Kubo sank that possibility in an interview. It's not like Kubo meant that their relationship goes beyond lovers and friendship. There's nothing romantic in that. It's not like their is an ENTIRE MOVIE that is KUBO-APPROVED that encourages IchiRuki and the possibility that their bond remains strong EVEN BEYOND MEMORIES AND POSSIBLY TIME ITSELF. That movie wasn't really Kubo-approved, it's just a movie. It's just filler, shameless shipping promotion to appease the large fanbase. Nothing more. Since Orihime is the only one with confirmed feelings and confession, IchiHime is already inevitability canon, and no matter Kubo shipteases us with Batspada and Ishida -DA MAN-, that's what they are; shipteases. Kubo loves Byriking the fandom. IchiHime is CANONZ, and there is nothing you can do about it. Why, even the aborted pilot is forshadowing! 100% Tv Tropes confirmed. EPIC TRUFAX!!

Oh, and according to Tv Tropes, Naruto never jumped the shark, not even once. Naruto is one of the greatest manga ever created, and the fans are just too prissy and dump to understand its greatness. Itachi VS Sasuke wasn't far-fetched and awkwardly stupid. Naruto is totally NOT gay for Sasuke and Sakura pwned the Akatsuki with her axe like, in just seven swings. AWESOME!

(Sorry for the rant.. I really, really, REALLY hate Tv Tropes. *pout*)
darth crackerjack: Rukiaqwirky on October 19th, 2009 09:58 pm (UTC)
I love people who think that "Damsel in Distress" equates to "needing to be rescued." It doesn't matter how hard a character fights or how independent a character is or how much a character isn't sitting around waiting to be rescued or crying - all that matters to the "DiD!" criers is the end-game. If you don't win, you're a DiD. Circumstances, to these people, are irrelevant. How a character acts? Irrelevant. (Hence them ignoring Rukia's fighting to the very end.) Oh, and you have to be a female. Clearly, Chad and Renji and Ishida aren't DiDs because, despite losing an awful lot, they're males, and males are Awesome By Default.

It would not surprise me in the least that, if you counted the number of times characters in this series needed saving, Ichigo ended up being the character who needed saving the most. But of course Ichigo isn't a DiD, despite being rescued numerous times by other characters.

Edited at 2009-10-19 10:06 pm (UTC)
(Anonymous) on October 21st, 2009 05:12 am (UTC)
hahaha i had to react to the "awesome by default" bit, that was great ~.^
araine: ishihimearaine on October 19th, 2009 10:01 pm (UTC)
I just had a long discussion about this while talking about sexism in Naruto manga (which, imo, is so much more than in Bleach manga). Hahaa, this would have been a nice post to link to.

Yes, the two main ladies of Bleach got a rescue arc. But there was a lot behind those rescue arcs that had to do with the characters choices and motivations that was really not as sexist as people say.
45¢ and an Almond Joy: Bleach: Ichigo has an Idea!conjure_lass on October 19th, 2009 10:02 pm (UTC)
I loved the fact that Neliel would have won that fight if she hadn't returned to her child form. She had Nnoitra beat.

And though I would agree that there are plenty of instances that women save the day, I do get tired of seeing them take the vast brunt of the "gratuitous" injuries. Losing their whole sides, their arms, their whole lower TORSOS. Ichigo is the only one keeping up with the massive damage wihh that hole in the chest.

Just sayin'
_debbiechan__debbiechan_ on October 19th, 2009 10:10 pm (UTC)

the vast brunt of the "gratuitous" injuries

I'd have to argue this. You say whole lower torsos. There's been just one--Hiyori's. You say whole sides--just one, Matsumoto's. Even though Hitsugaya was shown being chopped in half. That was an illusion but Tesla's being chopped in half wasn't. Already there, your males outnumber females.

We could count the armless but that would take too long. The armless women include Kukakku and her handmaidens who sacrificed their arms to make that wonderful killing machine named Allon. The armless men--well that's just about every other guy in Bleach so certainly that's NOT the "brunt" of the gratutious injuries.
(no subject) - conjure_lass on October 19th, 2009 10:14 pm (UTC) (Expand)
(no subject) - _debbiechan_ on October 19th, 2009 10:24 pm (UTC) (Expand)
(no subject) - conjure_lass on October 19th, 2009 10:26 pm (UTC) (Expand)
pogo: Ichirukipogo2468 on October 19th, 2009 10:05 pm (UTC)
Yup, seems like getting help = DID. If that's the case, I guess Chad, Renji, Ishida, Inoue, Rose, Love, Hitsugaya, Tatsuki, Grimmjow, the rest of the vizards, and even the hero Ichigo are all DID's. Pffft, funny how these are the same people who think it's ok for Inoue to scream for help...

They're just butthurt fans who are pissed because the manga isn't following their delusional fantasies :p

nehalenia: ishida what am I wearingnehalenia on October 19th, 2009 10:41 pm (UTC)
Well, poor Ishida actually did get to play DID through a good part of the Bounto arc. ;) The animators did awful things to him.
(no subject) - pogo2468 on October 19th, 2009 10:49 pm (UTC) (Expand)
(no subject) - mikaoru on October 19th, 2009 11:05 pm (UTC) (Expand)
(no subject) - nehalenia on October 19th, 2009 11:30 pm (UTC) (Expand)
the cosplayin' cat lady: blahmochavalentino on October 19th, 2009 10:09 pm (UTC)
I never thought of it as sexist. I just hate the fact that ICHIGO always has to win. I'm still really ticked that Ichigo had to come save Chad, Renji, AND Rukia from Yammy. I think they should've been able to do it themselves...
Grenat: virgoescarboucle on October 19th, 2009 10:11 pm (UTC)
Chad got owned by #5, Renji and Ishida combined could do nothing against #8, and Rukia only beat #9.

The truth is, had they won, people would have called plotkai :elmo

There's no way to win this one.

Also, we have yet to see Ichigo win. I see a lot of struggles incoming, that's for sure.
(no subject) - mochavalentino on October 19th, 2009 10:21 pm (UTC) (Expand)
(no subject) - jdm6845 on October 20th, 2009 12:13 am (UTC) (Expand)
(no subject) - _debbiechan_ on October 19th, 2009 10:15 pm (UTC) (Expand)
(no subject) - mochavalentino on October 19th, 2009 10:18 pm (UTC) (Expand)
(no subject) - _debbiechan_ on October 19th, 2009 10:21 pm (UTC) (Expand)
(no subject) - mochavalentino on October 19th, 2009 10:23 pm (UTC) (Expand)
(no subject) - goddychan on October 20th, 2009 12:37 am (UTC) (Expand)
eriu11: Ishida Serious Businesseriu11 on October 19th, 2009 10:11 pm (UTC)
Good Grief, Thank you for posting this.

I am so SICK of people complaining about the women. If I hear one more person say something like "LOL, KUBO HATES VAGINAS!! WHAT A TROL!! LOL!!11" I think I may pull my hair out.
Personally I've always thought these people were mad. I mean, one of the things that attracted me to Bleach in the first place was the strong females, like: Rukia, Tatsuki, Yoruichi, Kuuchaku, heck, even Momo recently.
I like that he doesn't have females being protected left and right. So, women are getting hurt or wounded, so what. Are people failing to grasp that they fighting a war here? There will be casualties. Men are falling as well, look at poor Ukitake *sob*. Now, call me crazy, but, as a female myself, I would find it extremely more sexist if Kubo made all the women wait at home or be shielded by men, preventing them from fighting. But, no, what is happening is that highly trained warriors are going onto the battlefield, knowing full well what to expect, and fighting at their best. In recent chapters any woman whose been injured has not been so because she' "LOL, FEMALE", but because of personality flaws, for example, Mashiro overconfidence and Hiyori's hot-headedness. Seriously, people, it character development, not gender discrimination.

I mean, who so far has been the only person to stop Gin's Shinsou? Byakuya? Nope. Hitsugaya? Nope. It was Matsumoto.
And which Captain has been able to get close enough to Aizen to put a sword to his throat? Not Shunsui, not Yama-ji. It was Soi Fon.
Well, looks like the females aren't totally useless after all. I think the biggest problem is noone is taking context into account. They see Matsumoto fall and think "oh, she's just a weak female", ignoring the fact that she has been fighting (and beating) powerful enemies and was taken by surprise.
They look at Orihime crying and think "Psssh, someone send the little girl home", forgetting that she can hold her own, but has recently been through severe mental torture.

I wish people would actually remember some of this stuff before they go lighting their pitchforks and screaming 'Sexism'.

P.S. Sorry for the long comment, had to get that off my chest.
_debbiechan_: Hime Looking Up_debbiechan_ on October 19th, 2009 10:19 pm (UTC)
Re: Hurrah

They look at Orihime crying and think "Psssh, someone send the little girl home", forgetting that she can hold her own, but has recently been through severe mental torture.

I, for one, am sick and tired of hearing that Orihime is a healer and not a fighter. Her fairies are manifestations of herself and Tsubaki is therefore 1/6th of her and he has to be brought out eventually. The girl can FIGHT--we've seen her do it and we're going to see it again--mark my words. It's what Orihime SAID she wanted for herself. It's what she's going to have to do for the sake of her own self-respect in the story, never mind all the people complaining about her in fandom.
Re: Hurrah - eriu11 on October 19th, 2009 10:27 pm (UTC) (Expand)
Re: Hurrah - jenny_jade on October 19th, 2009 10:36 pm (UTC) (Expand)
Re: Hurrah - eriu11 on October 19th, 2009 10:41 pm (UTC) (Expand)
Re: Hurrah - conjure_lass on October 19th, 2009 10:40 pm (UTC) (Expand)
Re: Hurrah - eriu11 on October 19th, 2009 10:47 pm (UTC) (Expand)
Re: Hurrah - marionette71088 on October 19th, 2009 11:01 pm (UTC) (Expand)
Re: Hurrah - karenai on October 20th, 2009 05:32 am (UTC) (Expand)
Re: Hurrah - nehalenia on October 19th, 2009 11:16 pm (UTC) (Expand)
Re: Hurrah - marionette71088 on October 19th, 2009 11:46 pm (UTC) (Expand)
Re: Hurrah - nehalenia on October 20th, 2009 12:17 am (UTC) (Expand)
Re: Hurrah - nehalenia on October 19th, 2009 11:07 pm (UTC) (Expand)
(Deleted comment)
Re: Hurrah - karenai on October 20th, 2009 10:10 pm (UTC) (Expand)
Re: Hurrah - nehalenia on October 21st, 2009 05:08 am (UTC) (Expand)
Re: Hurrah - karenai on October 21st, 2009 05:32 am (UTC) (Expand)
Re: Hurrah - karenai on October 20th, 2009 05:30 am (UTC) (Expand)
Re: Hurrah - eriu11 on October 20th, 2009 09:46 pm (UTC) (Expand)
aeri: kuchiki rukiailuxe_love on October 19th, 2009 10:46 pm (UTC)
Have to agree with eriu11. One of the main things that attracted me to Bleach in the first place were the strong female characters -- namely, Rukia. I like the fact that she isn't a stereotypical heroine that's so commonly found in shounen manga. Some of the other female characters are loud with dirty mouths and possess extremely dominant and strong personalities -- definitely not typical DiDs. I would not count Rukia as a DiD.

In the latest chapter, I don't consider Rukia as a DID unless she did nothing to try to save herself or protect her friends, etc etc. This is obviously not the case, as we saw her still fighting while going down. She's not screaming for help; she was depending on herself.

Everybody needs to get saved some times, even Ichigo himself. This is what nakama are about -- learning that it's okay to depend on each other once in a while. Kubo balances out moments of Ichigo saving Rukia with instances of Rukia saving Ichigo and etc so I really don't think it's sexist. Plus, Bleach has awesome moments where women come to the rescue (doesn't necessarily have to be men being rescued! women rescuing women... like Matsumoto blocking Gin, protecting Momo -- that was awesome) so I don't know what they're talking about.
aeri: kuchiki rukiailuxe_love on October 19th, 2009 10:52 pm (UTC)
Forgot to add: one of the things that did bother me a little tiny bit in the latest chapter was that Rukia was crouching the entire time. In some panels it was to emphasize how much bigger Ichigo seemed when standing next to Rukia... I realize that this was Ichigo's moment and a time for Rukia to be introspective about Ichigo's condition and that Rukia's a little spent by now but I kinda wished she jumped in and tried to help him fight anyway. This was just a tiny, tiny reservation and the beginning made up for it.

Nonetheless, I still don't find it sexist since Rukia stood on the sides for a reason (in terms of story-telling).
(no subject) - nehalenia on October 19th, 2009 11:24 pm (UTC) (Expand)
(no subject) - marionette71088 on October 20th, 2009 12:15 am (UTC) (Expand)
oh gallant piglet,: glassesaizome on October 19th, 2009 11:00 pm (UTC)
LOL is it sad that I kept reading 'DID' as Dissociative Identity Disorder? I was super confused. Technically, Ichigo's the one with DID.

Also it's been said in several places, but I'll paraphrase it again:
Would these fans rather watch Orihime wringing her hands and not even breaking a fingernail NOT FIGHTING, or Hinamori wielding some kick-ASS kidou before getting punched by Allon (and going down like a FIGHTER)? You can't have it both ways. If the ladies are going to be fighters, they are going to be getting hurt every bit as much as the guys.

Also, I can never resist linking to my favorite Bleach comic when people claim Rukia is such a fragile little flower. ;)
Messy M.: LOL!Giovanni // DOGSvicious_melange on October 19th, 2009 11:16 pm (UTC)
I never get tired of reading this comic xDDDD
(no subject) - jadeded on October 19th, 2009 11:33 pm (UTC) (Expand)
(no subject) - nehalenia on October 19th, 2009 11:34 pm (UTC) (Expand)
(no subject) - marionette71088 on October 19th, 2009 11:48 pm (UTC) (Expand)
(no subject) - laurie_bunter on October 20th, 2009 02:15 am (UTC) (Expand)
(no subject) - karenai on October 20th, 2009 05:34 am (UTC) (Expand)
Messy M.: Takumi // NANAvicious_melange on October 19th, 2009 11:10 pm (UTC)
For god's sake, Rukia was, together with Ichigo, the only one of the gang who defeated a goddamn espada. She was also fighting Yammy (and was the last one standing)and giving her all before Ichigo saved her. How can she be a damsel in distress...?

If only half of the shounen titles out there had as many strong women as Bleach has.
mezzo_marinaiomezzo_marinaio on October 19th, 2009 11:22 pm (UTC)

"Aren't you a damsel in distress?"

"I am a damsel. I am in distress.

I can handle this."

Damsel + Distress ≠ Damsel in distress

jadeded on October 19th, 2009 11:34 pm (UTC)
If this were BA you'd get a rep!
(no subject) - mikaoru on October 20th, 2009 01:33 am (UTC) (Expand)
(no subject) - hinodeh on October 20th, 2009 12:53 pm (UTC) (Expand)
(no subject) - mezzo_marinaio on October 20th, 2009 01:55 pm (UTC) (Expand)
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(no subject) - mezzo_marinaio on October 20th, 2009 02:49 pm (UTC) (Expand)
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(no subject) - mezzo_marinaio on October 20th, 2009 03:27 pm (UTC) (Expand)
jadeded on October 19th, 2009 11:31 pm (UTC)
I didn't realize people were actually calling Rukia a DID after this recent chapter. Because really, that's just damn stupid.

If anything, she's the last one standing, still pulling spells outta her ass and with NO freaking complaints either.

When I think of all the female characters in Bleach, the only one playing the DID much is Orihime, and though I'm still pretty miffed at her character, I know that being helpless is not her defining attribute.

I suppose it's just double standards and there's no way to really avoid them in fandom, but judging from just the last chapter, COME ON! There are 3 nakama in the fray, 2 are motionless on the ground, and yet the 1 still fighting gets the elusive title of DID? Ugh.
tolstoyfan on October 20th, 2009 01:18 am (UTC)
Yeah they were.. There was also speculation that Rukia was a damsel in distress because Renji and Chad were protecting her because she was weak.

goddychangoddychan on October 20th, 2009 12:27 am (UTC)
Rukia's not a DID. She was clearly at her limit. If anyone's a DID in this arc, it's Orihime, but last time we saw her, she even seemed to realize that she needed to get herself together and not rely so much on Ichigo and the nakama.

As for 'KUBO HAET WOMEN', sometimes it's a little...I want to say distracting but not exactly...maybe disappointing..that the women seem to get screwed over more than the men. But then I remember that there's strong female characters like Yoriuchi and Rukia in this; which is the reason why I fell for this series in the first place.

Besides the sexism comments don't really bother me that much; it's odd but I find shojo series more sexist(at least some).

And the constant cries of everyone being so butthurt because Heaven forbid a good guy died(you would've thought people would've shut up since Hiyori got sliced but nope...), how Kubo relies on 'plotkai' and the fact that people are STILL butthurt over the Espada getting killed off.