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05 September 2009 @ 01:56 pm
just to be thorough: episode 235  
yes, i know this post is like a week late by now (sorry, i just watched the ep) but i wanted to hear people's thoughts on episode 235.

my take on it: ok... am i pissed that TEH very eagerly expected kazeshini episode was more about renji than about shuuhei?


very! >.<

that said, there was some quite nice renji AND ichigo introspection there. i liked it. and the renji shippers are sure to be excited about it, i think they covered all the biggest renji ships.

also good that muramasa realized shirosaki is a hollow and as such doesn't care for freeing him, just eliminating him so he can't interfere. it's what i was expecting from the beginning, and why i was so baffled at the end of last episode.

hopefully we'll see more shuuhei and kazeshini in upcoming eps. i like the fact that they both agree that they can't stand the sight of the other. very interesting dynamic for a shinigami and his zanpakutou. want to bet on how soon they take that back?

so, what did you guys think?
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Avavisforvanilla on September 5th, 2009 07:32 pm (UTC)
I love the HichiIchi fanservice! I am very happy right now~ (Yes, I just watched it too)

Poor Renji D: But I'm glad that he was able to answer his own question (he's fighting to get stronger) and hopefully he'll be able to get his Zanpakto back. : >
Kylara: henshinkarenai on September 5th, 2009 07:52 pm (UTC)
It almost felt like Zabimaru was mocking Renji about the man's actions with Rukia (his most precious thing, oh, animators, you've been watching CLAMP!). Oh, Renji.

It feels like they're going to mix and match the shinigami and their zan in the upcoming episodes. I'm looking forward to Shiro-chan. You, too, no? ;)

Other thoughts? Why the hell did they have Ichigo say "I am a human" then blather on and on about getting Zangetsu back? And this from a series where Ichigo has said, firmly, that he's a shinigami *facepalm* Didn't make a ton of sense to me.
カルラ (carla): ishihime: full of wondergirls_are_weird on September 6th, 2009 03:26 pm (UTC)
yeah, she was. in fact that part made me go "oohh, chimpette is tough and all, but she can see through renji's feelings. interesting!"

yes shiro-chan plz! ^.^

and i didn't like the whole "i am human!" thing either. partly because of the 300 flashbacks but also it reeked random explanation: "i'm not a shinigami nor a vaizard nor an arrancar and i have too damn many internal personalities and i'm just a really weird creature that nobody understands but what the hell i'm proud of whatever i am and i'm not gonna let you destroy it!" --> and while it's good that he's proud of what he is, announcing that he has no idea what he really is, it's just silly. ^^;;;
Kylarakarenai on September 7th, 2009 12:54 am (UTC)
I am not sure Ichigo has ever said in the entire series he was a human. Obviously, he started out that way, but it's not like I've really seen him clinging to his humanity here. >_>;

And yeah, even in the context of the episode, it was still weird. I think they just wanted to give him something to yell about while Renji was yelling too ^^
nehalenia: daddy approvesnehalenia on September 5th, 2009 08:26 pm (UTC)
I enjoyed the Shirosaki action (Muramasa seriously needs a stomping) and thought it was interesting that Ichigo just accepted his Hollow self like that. It makes me wonder if this is supposed to be taking place after the HM arc because if so, it might foreshadow that Ichigo *does* come to accept his Hollow as part of himself -- something that hasn't happened yet in manga canon, but seriously needs to.

Watching Renji get beat up was hard but I was thrilled when he got his shikai back (even tho I have no idea how they're going to explain that.)

And even if the episode had been total crap, I would have loved it for the omake alone. I adore any Isshin/Ryuuken action, and the addition of chibi!Uryuu was just too damn cute.
karkashan: EthicalTreatmentkarkashan on September 5th, 2009 08:51 pm (UTC)
I don't know. I always thought he 'accepted' that he had a hollow inside of himself right when he beat the living daylights out of it while training with the Vaizards.

Or to be more precise, he accepts that he has a hollow inside of him, is glad for the power boost it can give him, but doesn't like the Hollow all that much. (Would prefer if the actual!Zangetsu would hang around in his mind more than Ogichi!Zangetsu)
nehalenia: hichigonehalenia on September 5th, 2009 10:10 pm (UTC)
My impression was that he hasn't really accepted his Hollow as part of himself. He uses it, certainly, but I'm thinking of when Ulquiorra said his getsuga tensho was like a cero and Ichigo was all "Oh no it's not, don't compare me to a Hollow" (or something like that.) Also when he came back to himself after tearing up Ulquiorra and stabbing Ishida on the dome, his words were "That wasn't me."

In manga canon, at least, I see him as separating himself from and rejecting his Hollow self. Except for getsuga tensho, he won't even use the fighting techniques his Hollow uses -- like using the hilt-wrap to swing Zangetsu to use it for a distance attack.

I do agree tho that he'd rather have Old Man Zangetsu back.
karkashan: SneakAttackkarkashan on September 6th, 2009 12:10 am (UTC)
Maybe I should rephrase. "Accepted", in the loosest possible definition. He'll use the power whenever he feels like it (especially since he picked up that new trick with Grimmjow), but he's not a fan of his hollow, nor does he like being referred to as one.

He still calls himself 'human', after all, even though he's not really...that anymore.
カルラ (carla): ishida uryuu: quincygirls_are_weird on September 6th, 2009 04:03 pm (UTC)
that omake was just made of win. isshin and ryuuken channeling maes hughes from FMA-- you just can't get any better than that. xDDD
ann89103: Renji: Playing with Dollsann89103 on September 5th, 2009 08:47 pm (UTC)
Another very good episode, just needed more Hisagi & Kazeshini. My only problem is trying to determine exactly when this is taking place. I'm thinking before HM, but then they use a clip of Renji fighting Syazel during Renji's flashback.

I know I should treat this as filler!verse compared to manga!canon, but it is still breaking my brain.
カルラ (carla): ishihime: the space between usgirls_are_weird on September 6th, 2009 03:32 pm (UTC)
well, apparently the arrancar arc went into a pause or something. aizen was graceful enough to allow the shinigami to go back to SS to catch some Z's for a little while and muramasa decided it would be the perfect time to attack.


meanwhile, brains are breaking all over the fandom. *facepalm*
kohi_no_torakohi_no_tora on September 5th, 2009 10:44 pm (UTC)
I'm surprised that no-one's commenting on the fact that Renji successfully released his shikai at the end of the episode.

As such there are hypothesis forming! Primarily that the beings wandering around Soul Society causing havoc are not the real zanpaktou but artificial doppelgangers created by Muramasa somehow. The real zanpaktou spirits are still with their owners where they belong but the process Muramasa uses to create the doppelganger seals them somehow. Renji, through desperation and determination has managed to break that seal.

In theory that means that Hisagi can kill the Kazeshini he's fighting and still remain unaffected, in the long run.
wtf_ms_bunnywtf_ms_bunny on September 6th, 2009 06:14 am (UTC)
I completely agree with your theory here. (1) Muramasa is a con artist, and Ichigo and Renji are beginning to understand this. (1) Ichigo was also able to use his WILL to get M out of his inner environment, and (2) Renji was able to command his shikai at the end of the episode.

This mirrors our heroes consistent themes about protecting friends, getting stronger, and sheer will power to beat the odds.

I am actually really enjoying this filler arc.

What was that filament M was using to trap Shirosaki in place?

How does Ichigo being human and hollow help Soul Society/Shinigami this time around? He always serves as the outsider who is able to try something different because he isn't beholden to the ways things have been done in Soul Society for eons. I like that Ichigo is the catalyst for change, and has this effect on his inner circle (Rukia, Renji, etc).

What will creepy Mayuri come up with this time????
secila80: Renji can't hear yousecila80 on September 6th, 2009 07:29 am (UTC)
I think the filament was part of Muramasa's ability as a zanpaktou. It seems like he can bind things with INVISIBLE TAPE(!?!). It kind of makes sense with the theory you are discussing -- its like a sealing ability. He can restrict people without them being able to see what is restricting them. I'm wondering if he can further manipulate the "invisible tape" to distort images or create them. If he can that seems to explain everything he has done up to this point except for how Bayakuya's zanpaktou sort of quasi-rebelled on him during his sparring match with Renji. Hmmmmmm maybe there is a reason Bayakuya is missing . . .
wtf_ms_bunnywtf_ms_bunny on September 6th, 2009 05:21 pm (UTC)
OOOOOOOh, I for got about the nick from Senz. I can't believe that the Byakuya would lose *control* of his Zp!!! Unfathomable!

Isn't this a great filler arc???!!!
カルラ (carla): ishihime: you + megirls_are_weird on September 6th, 2009 04:02 pm (UTC)
the idea that they're doppelgangers seems likely to me. for all the reasons you guys mentioned and also, because i keep flashing back to that scene back in the first episode of the arc when hitsugaya first senses that there's something wrong with the zanpakutous-- he tries to establish contact with hyourinmaru and can't. i don't know, i just always got the feeling that it wasn't so much that hyourinmaru just up and separated himself from the kid (i don't know how they managed to make an ice dragon look sad, but they pulled it off), but instead there was something stopping them from connecting. which would fit with this theory that the zps are sealed away somehow but not actually rebelling.

on the other hand, there's the fact that mayuri seems positive that the zps are now completely separated from their shinigamis. and the fact that SnS still seemed to care about rukia somehow...

i don't know, but i still like the idea. in a sense it makes muramasa even more terrifying than he is right now, because it would mean he not only managed to somehow seal the zps somewhere not even mayuri himself can detect them, but he also managed to create some damn good doppelgangers. i mean, this guy clearly knows things he shouldn't know. the possibility that he can represent the zps and their relationship with their shinigami so accurately is nothing just downright scary.
Horusguard76: B - PunkShuuhei (cool)horusguard76 on September 5th, 2009 11:25 pm (UTC)
Yeah, sadly there was not enough Shuuhei/kazeshini action as it had been promised. It was interesting to see though that the dislike/disgust is something both characters feel for each other. Both feel let down by the other and are so caught up in their own set of ideal/morale that it never occurs to either of them to put him/itself into the other characters' shoes for a moment. Oh well, I am curious to see their issues resolved.

I LOVED how Ichigo's hollow kicked ass and wanted Muramasa out of its inner world. Too bad it did get caught in Muramsa's web but still, I very much liked that it acted smarter (read: more cautious) during their exchange than most of the shinigami we had seen so far.

Having Renji and Ichigo get up and fight back at the same time was a very nice touch. Nice pacing and graphics.
カルラ (carla): ishihime: full of wondergirls_are_weird on September 6th, 2009 04:22 pm (UTC)
the whole shuuhei/kazeshini thing just gets more and more interesting by the second. i find myself clinging onto that little itty kazeshini said, that he'd "entered into an agreement with shuuhei." how can that be? i mean, obviously there's some sort of agreement between the zp and the shinigami, we've seen that with ichigo, but it's not like kazeshini would've been able to say "hah, turns out you're too much of a pussy for me so i think i'll look for someone else i can work with." it's not like shuuhei could've outright rejected kazeshini-- he would've been shikai-less for the rest of his afterlife (of course, he later decided it would be the better option, but i hardly think he thought that way at the moment so it's not like he had a choice but to accept the "deal").

all in all, the fact that zanpakutou and shinigami can be so different just never fails to astound me. it's gonna be a tough one to resolve-- i can't imagine that shuuhei doesn't feel guilty on some level that he actually wants to destroy his own zanpakutou. although i don't think they'll actually "resolve" their issues in this arc, the issues still have to exist later on (as we know from the current manga chapters). but still... i wonder just what they'll do to stop shuuhei and kazeshini from outright killing each other.
Horusguard76: B - PunkShuuhei (cool)horusguard76 on September 7th, 2009 05:19 am (UTC)
Good questions. In my eyes these are symptomatic for a filler arc in general - instead of answering questions, new ones arise. On the one hand wielder and zanpakutou are supposed to be ONE, or rather the zanpakutou is the physical manifestation of a shinigami's soul. How do you reject your own soul? In my eyes wielder and zanpakutou are stuck with each other for better and for worse. They must reach an understanding or the shinigami wouldn't be albe to function and be fit for duty, so-to-speak.

Yeah, to hear someone like Shuuhei state he wouldn't mind to kill Kazeshini off... wow, that took their quarrel onto a whole new level. I just hope that they anime makers didn't shovel their own grave with such drastic ideas. Resolving that will take some time and I sure hope it won't be a cop-out.

So, you are not alone with those thoughts. :)
aeri: abarai renjiiluxe_love on September 6th, 2009 01:41 am (UTC)
I saw this episode and thought it was just badly named. I like Shuuhei, but I like Renji better. XD So it was a good episode, I thought.

All of Renji's flashbacks were very nicely integrated. Emotional and touching; I felt so bad for poor, poor Renji. I was also surprised at how much more obvious and blatant the anime is about shippings. I'm sure the RenRuki implications pleased quite a few, but my favorite part about that particular flashback sequence was where Renji remembers asking Ichigo to go save Rukia because he couldn't and Zabimaru saying something about him losing a precious one and not being able to get her back (can't remember the exact words).

Also, I LOVED the scene towards the end where we saw Ichigo and Renji shout "I won't lose!" ...Reminds me of the scene in the manga where they say "Because I swore to my soul!"
カルラ (carla): ishihime: the space between usgirls_are_weird on September 6th, 2009 04:24 pm (UTC)
i really felt bad for renji this time around. i mean, it's gotta be tough to fight against an opponen that really knows everything about you.

and yes, i loved that little parallel scene between ichigo and renji. i, too, thought about that manga panel and i thought that was just awesome =3
secila80: Renji secila80 on September 6th, 2009 07:54 am (UTC)
The last episode was named for Renji and featured more Hisagi and this episode was named for Hisagi and featured more Renji -- that confused me.

Other than that I thought it was very interesting. Renji calling forth his shikai with sheer willpower -- very nice, very unexpected but very nice *Renji fangirl squee*. And didn't Ichigo also use his shikai when he freed Shiro? That white light seemed like Zangetsu pre-Shiro, right? Either way, if all the shinigami need to do is have the requisite amount of willpower to regain the use of their zanpakous I think Renji (and/or Ichigo) was the perfect character to do this first. Everyone else would probably just listen to Mayuri's instruction that they didn't have the use of their zanpaktous anymore and not even try to shikai. Renji (and/or Ichigo) would try to shikai anyway -- to Hell with anyone telling them they can't, lol. (That was a really long way of saying that I liked the way they handled that.)

Also, Renji's fight with Zabimaru seemed to relate back A LOT to his fight with Ichigo (eons ago), except Renji was the Ichigo figure here. Not sure if more is to be made out of that but right now I'm enjoying the seeming tribute to the original storyline.

Fabulous filler is fabulous. (And adorable chibi-Ishida is adorable <3)
カルラ (carla): ishihime: you + megirls_are_weird on September 6th, 2009 04:36 pm (UTC)
Renji (and/or Ichigo) would try to shikai anyway -- to Hell with anyone telling them they can't, lol. (That was a really long way of saying that I liked the way they handled that.)

LOL, too true!

ichigo is a weird case, though, because his sword has been in its "shikai" physical shape all along. so i'm not sure about that one. still, i think him and renji would be thinking along the same way when it comes to sheer willpower accomplishing things-- partly because ichigo basically taught renji that, like you mentioned.

also, i wonder what that might mean for someone like shuuhei. think of the irony: the one time he may be able to release without hesitation, because he knows that he's fighting the crazy psycho elf instead of fighting alongside him, so there's no need to worry that it'll go out of control. but he's so used to not releasing shikai, and so against wanting to get his zp back, that he may simply never pluck up the willpower needed to break whatever hold muramasa has on kazeshini. it's an interesting thing to think about.
tenkyoen on September 6th, 2009 08:31 am (UTC)

But yeah, I Could go into intelligent!fan-mode and talk about all the stuff between Ichigo and Hichigo and how Ichigo 'accepts' him...or I could do this:


This sorta goes with my 'after the war they become buddies' theory that hods no base in the canon manga whatsoever. X3 Hey, a fangirl can dream, right?!

But yes, have to give credit to Renji and Shuuhei, their parts of the Ep. were cool too!