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24 February 2010 @ 11:43 pm
Gene Simmons' Son Plagiarizing Bleach?  
Is Bleach being copied and passed off as an original American comic called Incarnate by Nick Simmons, son of Gene Simmons?



note to non-Bleach readers: all the pictures are labeled, but generally, BLEACH is in black-and-white while INCARNATE is in color.

Side by side from cuddl.


Original pages.


Overlay by aizome


Leftmost: Bleach
Center: Incarnate
Rightmost: overlay (thank you shaolin)


This batch: thanks, cuddl, lackasexical, & CorpusDei@BA.


Merger by aizome


Thanks shaolin & stealthhuman for this comparison.
Left: Bleach
Right: Incarnate


lackasexical for this overlay below.


Incarnate


Bleach


Overlay by lackasexical


Thanks cuddl


Overlay by lackasexical


Thanks cuddl


Overlay by Rubine on Encyclopedia Dramatica


From cuddl:


Leftmost: Incarnate
Rightmost: Bleach
Center Two: overlays by shaolin


Thanks cuddl


Bleach, Bleach, Bleach


Overlay from lackasexical


cuddl


Overlay by lackasexical


From cuddl
Left: Incarnate
Right: Bleach


Overlay by lackasexical


From foodisverygood
Incarnate


Bleach


From jenny_jade

Left: Bleach
Right: Incarnate


Left: Incarnate
Right: Bleach


Overlay by lackasexical


Thanks cuddl


Overlay from Rubine at Encyclopedia Dramatica


Top Color: Incarnate
Bottom B&W: Bleach


Overlay by lackasexical


Incarnate


Overlay by lackasexical


From jenny_jade
Bleach


Incarnate


Overlay by kawree


Alternate overlay by lackasexical


overlay and pics from lackasexical.
Left: Bleach
Right: Incarnate




Comparison from stealthhuman.

Left: Bleach
Right: Incarnate


Incarnate


fanart of Bleach character Grimmjow by DeviantArtist rae here. Artist site..


Overlay from Rubine at Encyclopedia Dramatica


Thanks anon for this one.

Left: Incarnate
Right: ChaosVoid @ DeviantArt's S T A L K E R


This overlay was anonymously delivered; for non-Bleach readers, the black haired girl visible is Rukia Kuchiki from Bleach; the blonde girl would be Incarnate's.



Incarnate


Bleach


Bleach


Incarnate


NOTES

Many of these Bleach scans were cleaned by the beautiful people at JU-NI. You can visit them here.

A plaintive cry from Wikipedia-ers here who would like to remind people to strive for neutrality.

para_xylene wanted to point out that there are some very specific plot things that seem similar to whitewolf's VAMPIRE: THE MASQUERADE game, so you can take a look and see.

Hellsing comparison posts linked here here and here. and another one from stealthhuman.

More comparison posts linked here regarding the possible plagiarism of One Piece, Hellsing, Deadman Wonderland, Death Note, Naruto, Lupin the 3rd, Neon Genesis Evangelion, The Sandman, Full Metal Alchemist, Wolf's Rain, Death Note, and YGO.

Another comparison post with a DeviantArt by Robbin Graves. from cuddl

RE: THE MOVIE POSTER SIMILARITY. would like to say that that picture is actually used by the people who were distributing Incarnate, and not evidence of plagiarism on Nick Simmons' part. Please don't discuss it as such; thank you!

An anon dropped this gift off from Nick Simmons' favorites on DA.

jimsupreme would like to point out the following...

i've been following the whole nick Simmons/incarnate thing for months and was probably the first to mention his ripping off of bleach, hellsing, one piece etc. please feel free to link to my Youtube Show Geeking Out episode # 89 where I first reviewed the book # 98 where I reviewed # 2 #98 where I reviewed #2.

I contacted Radical , Viz and dark horse months ago about this but, at least something is finally being done...
.

Lastly, any other BLEACH manga pics in the thread that weren't credited are probably me; but of course, they are all drawn by KUBO TITE.


Incarnate information



CONTACT INFORMATION

Incarnate's Publishers: RADICAL COMICS
Los Angeles (Corporate Headquarters)
Radical Publishing
7421 Beverly Blvd
Los Angeles, CA 90036
P: 323-874-4400
F: 323-874-4422
E: radical@radicalcomics.com

VIZ COMICS, the North American license holders for Bleach.
Mailing Address:
VIZ Media, LLC
P.O. BOX 77010
San Francisco, CA 94107

Internet Contact Form (no email addy):

http://www.viz.com/about/contact/contact.php

SHUEISHA, the JP publishers for Bleach.

Shueisha Inc
5-10, 2-Chome, Hitotsubashi, Chiyoda-Hu
101 80 05, Tokyo
JAPAN (NIPPON)

telephone:
+81 (3) 3230 6379

website URL:
http://www.shueisha.co.jp/

editor: Hinoshi Yamazahi

http://www.penrose-press.com/idd/card.php?INDEX=PUB2338&SUBJECT=ALL

Thanks nomoreprinces for the JP contact info.

For the record, I don't care that it's Gene Simmons' son; however, if they're going to try to use some musician's name as a way to sell work that may be copied from another author, I might as well use that same name to gather some attention to such potential copying. Hence the sensationalist subject title.

I'm not the one who caught this; I'm just passing on this message. It came from this original GAMEFAQS thread: by superbot400 here.

It then went to Bleach Asylum; thank you CorpusDei from this thread for many of your first comparisons.

ETA 2: Wow there are a lot of comments in a very short amount of time.
ETA 3: OKAY, if you still have comparison pics, go ahead and post them in the comments. Please do NOT, however, encourage any conspiracies or encourage any harassment... we don't need this comm to get wrapped up in that. You guys are still Bleachness, be classy. Read _debbiechan_'s comment here for clarification.
ETA 4: More pictures.... looks like the Ulquihime scenes are a big hit with Mr. Simmons.
ETA 5: Pictures are going up as I get them in. Thanks people.
ETA 6: KUBO-SENSEI does in fact know.
ETA #9000: Everyone, please stop saying Mr. Nick Simmons replied on Facebook; that one is almost undoubtedly a troll.

KUBO-SENSEI'S TWEETS

From tobu_ishi right here.

So, uh, from yesterday night until this morning, there've been an amazing number of messages from overseas fans along the lines of "There's a manga imitating BLEACH in America!" Well, I had a look at the site and I don't understand English that well, but I think what's written there is something like "It's a manga drawn by Gene Simmons' son, Nick Simmons."

-and-

The fact that Gene Simmon's son is a manga-ka disturbs me more than whether he's really copying or not.

Translator's note: (There have been a lot of mistranslations due to Kubo's use of the word mitai, which means 'something like', but which is a homonym for the differently written word meaning 'want to see'. If he's interested in reading Incarnate, he hasn't said so. Also, a lot of people have translated ki ni naru ('disturbed/worried') as 'interested' (ki ni iru). Figured I'd try and help sort that out.)

FINAL ETA:

Everyone in Bleach fandom who has stepped up to devote time to putting up comparisons and panel-matching to the original work, I really appreciate it. You guys are wonderful -- flat out. To everyone who is keeping a cool head through this incredibly frustration stuff, thank you.

Please cut the conspiracy talk here on Bleachness --- we're not an anonymous troll site, okay, no plotting here --- and no speculation of nasty fates for Mr. Simmons. Seriously. Do not feed trolls, either.

To all the people who ended up on Bleachness for the first time ever or in a very long time, a friendly welcome and please enjoy your stay.


A nice timeline here of the entire business from lightina_hime

Round-up of News Stories:

2/25/2010 Anime News Network: Incarnate Halted over Alleged Bleach Plagiarism

2/25/2010 Comic Book Resources: Radical Halts Nick Simmons' Incarnate Amid Claims of Plagiarism

2/25/2010 Oh No They Didn't

2/25/2010 Gene Simmons' Kid is a...

2/25/2010 Geeks of Doom: Nick Simmons Accused of Plagiarism for Incarnate

2/26/2010 CNN Go.com: Gene Simmons' Son Accused of Bleach Plagiarism

2/27/2010 Magnetic Rose: Guest Post - Fans Accuse Nick Simmons of Plagiarizing Bleach

3/1/2010 Nick Simmons Releases Statement, Takes No Responsibility

3/1/2010 New York Times: Comic Book Creator Accused of Plagiarism

3/2/2010 Magnetic Rose: Nick Simmons Statement on Plagiarism Accusations Claims “Homage” to Bleach Artist

3/2/2010 Naked Singularity: What You Give To a Thief is Stolen

3/2/2010 Topless Robot: Nick Simmons Responds...

3/2/2010 ICv2: Nonapology apology

3/2/2010 Icarus: Falsehoods and Wishful Thinking

Some Legal News Articles

3/3/2010 Nick Simmons, the Internet Mob, and Copyright

3/3/2010 Understanding Incarnate and Comic Book Plagiarism

Miscellaneous Links

Encyclopedia Dramatica: Incarnate

Facebook Group: Calling For Legal Action Against Nick Simmons for Plagiarism

RESPONSE FROM INCARNATE'S PUBLISHERS



ETA 03/01/2010: Mr. Simmons' statement from his publicist here.

“Like most artists I am inspired by work I admire. There are certain similarities between some of my work and the work of others. This was simply meant as an homage to artists I respect, and I definitely want to apologize to any Manga fans or fellow Manga artists who feel I went too far. My inspirations reflect the fact that certain fundamental imagery is common to all Manga. This is the nature of the medium.

I am a big fan of Bleach, as well as other Manga titles. And I am certainly sorry if anyone was offended or upset by what they perceive to be the similarity between my work and the work of artists that I admire and who inspire me.”
 
 
Current Mood: ticked off
 
 
( Read 2230 commentsLeave a comment )
stealthhumanstealthhuman on February 27th, 2010 07:57 am (UTC)
Welp.

Bleach color spread found in All Color but the Black vs. Incarnate volume 2 page 27

And while I'm at it:

Left 3: Incarnate volumes 1 and 2. Fourth image is a Hellsing DVD color. Black & white images from Hellsing manga volume 3 page 32.
kigen_naiteiru on February 27th, 2010 11:20 am (UTC)
i think he used Rengiku's face for the "orihime" knock-off
(Anonymous) on February 27th, 2010 05:18 pm (UTC)
demonrindemonrin on February 27th, 2010 05:43 pm (UTC)
Hey, in that collage there's an image in the top right hand corner. That looks like a direct Panel-trace from Hellsing, there are several Eye shots like that, but it looks like Seras' eye from right when she turns full vampire.

Can somebody point me to the full, unedited Incarnate page that's ripped from?
I've seen a lot of his Hellsing ripoffs, but that's the first complete panel-trace I've seen. I co-run a Hellsing website and we made a news article about it. (www.call-to-arms.net for those of you keeping up with everyone who has written news about it, we even linked back to this thread) and I'm trying to catalog all of the Hellsing ripoffs.

Thank you.
stealthhumanstealthhuman on February 27th, 2010 06:11 pm (UTC)

It's from Incarnate issue 2, page 41. I could swear that the top-left part is also traced, but after scouring every part I could think of, I think it's a composite/style copy.
(Anonymous) on February 27th, 2010 06:32 pm (UTC)
I'm not at all sure. Check out Alucard's smile, first book, p. 132, bottom of the page.

It's the shot where he's talking with Anderson and they're about to fight in the old house? And Anderson just said Alucard and Seras are the only ones left, and Alucard is saying "you don't say."
ravyn_skye: SessmomBetterThanYouravyn_skye on February 28th, 2010 02:54 am (UTC)
Bad PS is bad.
Wow... Excessive use of that 'gradient' tool in PS, eh?

Dude, my manga colors look better than this guy's, and I've been doing it for all of four months. (But see, I don't claim the original art as my own. -_-").
stealthhumanstealthhuman on February 28th, 2010 03:09 am (UTC)
Re: Bad PS is bad.
To be fair, Magma-kun had nothing to do with the colors on this. The comic credits:
Colorist: Brian Buccellato
ravyn_skyeravyn_skye on February 28th, 2010 03:12 am (UTC)
Re: Bad PS is bad.
... He... He didn't even COLOR it?

Then what, exactly did he DO? What of these works can be called HIS? Hell, I could pretty easily get a drawing pad and make Kenpachi's and Ukitake's love child in PS, and call it a new character.

If these are just tracings... (Some of them are)... and he only did the LINEART?

W...T...F...

It's even worse than I thought.
Super-80s-Demonsuper_80s_demon on February 28th, 2010 03:30 am (UTC)
Re: Bad PS is bad.
Excuse my lack of knowledge in how comics and such are made, but is there any chance that Nick had a say in the color scheme of "his" characters?
stealthhumanstealthhuman on February 28th, 2010 03:36 am (UTC)
Re: Bad PS is bad.
Definitely. Character designers and the pencil/ink people tell the colorist what everything should look like. (That's why Superman's outfit is always blue and red, for example.)
Super-80s-Demonsuper_80s_demon on February 28th, 2010 04:59 am (UTC)
Re: Bad PS is bad.
Ah, okay. Thanks! Up until all of this, I had no idea so many people were involved in that art for comics.
(Anonymous) on February 28th, 2010 03:44 am (UTC)
Re: Bad PS is bad.
Artist has a say on how their characters should be colored through character concepts. Before an artist makes a character, he/she make concept art; during this process, the artist may experiment with color.

Sometimes, the color might written in a character sheet; For example, let's say you were designing some emo anime character and you wanted his skin to be off white. You would write that in teh notes.
Super-80s-Demonsuper_80s_demon on February 28th, 2010 05:01 am (UTC)
Re: Bad PS is bad.
Oh okay. Makes sense. Thank you. Up until I started following this post, I'd thought the artist did everything rather than there being a seperate jobs like inker and colorist.
geek 3/moderator 1aseariel on March 1st, 2010 07:09 am (UTC)
Re: Bad PS is bad.
Sometimes there's a separate artist for backgrounds, as well. All depends on the comic.
(Anonymous) on February 28th, 2010 03:59 am (UTC)
Re: Bad PS is bad.
The book wasn't colored by him <':
ravyn_skyeravyn_skye on February 28th, 2010 06:07 am (UTC)
Re: Bad PS is bad.
Yes, I was informed... This makes it even worse for me, as he was only tracing the LINEART and not even the COLORING can be said to be his own.

EPIC FAIL.