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24 February 2010 @ 11:43 pm
Gene Simmons' Son Plagiarizing Bleach?  
Is Bleach being copied and passed off as an original American comic called Incarnate by Nick Simmons, son of Gene Simmons?



note to non-Bleach readers: all the pictures are labeled, but generally, BLEACH is in black-and-white while INCARNATE is in color.

Side by side from cuddl.


Original pages.


Overlay by aizome


Leftmost: Bleach
Center: Incarnate
Rightmost: overlay (thank you shaolin)


This batch: thanks, cuddl, lackasexical, & CorpusDei@BA.


Merger by aizome


Thanks shaolin & stealthhuman for this comparison.
Left: Bleach
Right: Incarnate


lackasexical for this overlay below.


Incarnate


Bleach


Overlay by lackasexical


Thanks cuddl


Overlay by lackasexical


Thanks cuddl


Overlay by Rubine on Encyclopedia Dramatica


From cuddl:


Leftmost: Incarnate
Rightmost: Bleach
Center Two: overlays by shaolin


Thanks cuddl


Bleach, Bleach, Bleach


Overlay from lackasexical


cuddl


Overlay by lackasexical


From cuddl
Left: Incarnate
Right: Bleach


Overlay by lackasexical


From foodisverygood
Incarnate


Bleach


From jenny_jade

Left: Bleach
Right: Incarnate


Left: Incarnate
Right: Bleach


Overlay by lackasexical


Thanks cuddl


Overlay from Rubine at Encyclopedia Dramatica


Top Color: Incarnate
Bottom B&W: Bleach


Overlay by lackasexical


Incarnate


Overlay by lackasexical


From jenny_jade
Bleach


Incarnate


Overlay by kawree


Alternate overlay by lackasexical


overlay and pics from lackasexical.
Left: Bleach
Right: Incarnate




Comparison from stealthhuman.

Left: Bleach
Right: Incarnate


Incarnate


fanart of Bleach character Grimmjow by DeviantArtist rae here. Artist site..


Overlay from Rubine at Encyclopedia Dramatica


Thanks anon for this one.

Left: Incarnate
Right: ChaosVoid @ DeviantArt's S T A L K E R


This overlay was anonymously delivered; for non-Bleach readers, the black haired girl visible is Rukia Kuchiki from Bleach; the blonde girl would be Incarnate's.



Incarnate


Bleach


Bleach


Incarnate


NOTES

Many of these Bleach scans were cleaned by the beautiful people at JU-NI. You can visit them here.

A plaintive cry from Wikipedia-ers here who would like to remind people to strive for neutrality.

para_xylene wanted to point out that there are some very specific plot things that seem similar to whitewolf's VAMPIRE: THE MASQUERADE game, so you can take a look and see.

Hellsing comparison posts linked here here and here. and another one from stealthhuman.

More comparison posts linked here regarding the possible plagiarism of One Piece, Hellsing, Deadman Wonderland, Death Note, Naruto, Lupin the 3rd, Neon Genesis Evangelion, The Sandman, Full Metal Alchemist, Wolf's Rain, Death Note, and YGO.

Another comparison post with a DeviantArt by Robbin Graves. from cuddl

RE: THE MOVIE POSTER SIMILARITY. would like to say that that picture is actually used by the people who were distributing Incarnate, and not evidence of plagiarism on Nick Simmons' part. Please don't discuss it as such; thank you!

An anon dropped this gift off from Nick Simmons' favorites on DA.

jimsupreme would like to point out the following...

i've been following the whole nick Simmons/incarnate thing for months and was probably the first to mention his ripping off of bleach, hellsing, one piece etc. please feel free to link to my Youtube Show Geeking Out episode # 89 where I first reviewed the book # 98 where I reviewed # 2 #98 where I reviewed #2.

I contacted Radical , Viz and dark horse months ago about this but, at least something is finally being done...
.

Lastly, any other BLEACH manga pics in the thread that weren't credited are probably me; but of course, they are all drawn by KUBO TITE.


Incarnate information



CONTACT INFORMATION

Incarnate's Publishers: RADICAL COMICS
Los Angeles (Corporate Headquarters)
Radical Publishing
7421 Beverly Blvd
Los Angeles, CA 90036
P: 323-874-4400
F: 323-874-4422
E: radical@radicalcomics.com

VIZ COMICS, the North American license holders for Bleach.
Mailing Address:
VIZ Media, LLC
P.O. BOX 77010
San Francisco, CA 94107

Internet Contact Form (no email addy):

http://www.viz.com/about/contact/contact.php

SHUEISHA, the JP publishers for Bleach.

Shueisha Inc
5-10, 2-Chome, Hitotsubashi, Chiyoda-Hu
101 80 05, Tokyo
JAPAN (NIPPON)

telephone:
+81 (3) 3230 6379

website URL:
http://www.shueisha.co.jp/

editor: Hinoshi Yamazahi

http://www.penrose-press.com/idd/card.php?INDEX=PUB2338&SUBJECT=ALL

Thanks nomoreprinces for the JP contact info.

For the record, I don't care that it's Gene Simmons' son; however, if they're going to try to use some musician's name as a way to sell work that may be copied from another author, I might as well use that same name to gather some attention to such potential copying. Hence the sensationalist subject title.

I'm not the one who caught this; I'm just passing on this message. It came from this original GAMEFAQS thread: by superbot400 here.

It then went to Bleach Asylum; thank you CorpusDei from this thread for many of your first comparisons.

ETA 2: Wow there are a lot of comments in a very short amount of time.
ETA 3: OKAY, if you still have comparison pics, go ahead and post them in the comments. Please do NOT, however, encourage any conspiracies or encourage any harassment... we don't need this comm to get wrapped up in that. You guys are still Bleachness, be classy. Read _debbiechan_'s comment here for clarification.
ETA 4: More pictures.... looks like the Ulquihime scenes are a big hit with Mr. Simmons.
ETA 5: Pictures are going up as I get them in. Thanks people.
ETA 6: KUBO-SENSEI does in fact know.
ETA #9000: Everyone, please stop saying Mr. Nick Simmons replied on Facebook; that one is almost undoubtedly a troll.

KUBO-SENSEI'S TWEETS

From tobu_ishi right here.

So, uh, from yesterday night until this morning, there've been an amazing number of messages from overseas fans along the lines of "There's a manga imitating BLEACH in America!" Well, I had a look at the site and I don't understand English that well, but I think what's written there is something like "It's a manga drawn by Gene Simmons' son, Nick Simmons."

-and-

The fact that Gene Simmon's son is a manga-ka disturbs me more than whether he's really copying or not.

Translator's note: (There have been a lot of mistranslations due to Kubo's use of the word mitai, which means 'something like', but which is a homonym for the differently written word meaning 'want to see'. If he's interested in reading Incarnate, he hasn't said so. Also, a lot of people have translated ki ni naru ('disturbed/worried') as 'interested' (ki ni iru). Figured I'd try and help sort that out.)

FINAL ETA:

Everyone in Bleach fandom who has stepped up to devote time to putting up comparisons and panel-matching to the original work, I really appreciate it. You guys are wonderful -- flat out. To everyone who is keeping a cool head through this incredibly frustration stuff, thank you.

Please cut the conspiracy talk here on Bleachness --- we're not an anonymous troll site, okay, no plotting here --- and no speculation of nasty fates for Mr. Simmons. Seriously. Do not feed trolls, either.

To all the people who ended up on Bleachness for the first time ever or in a very long time, a friendly welcome and please enjoy your stay.


A nice timeline here of the entire business from lightina_hime

Round-up of News Stories:

2/25/2010 Anime News Network: Incarnate Halted over Alleged Bleach Plagiarism

2/25/2010 Comic Book Resources: Radical Halts Nick Simmons' Incarnate Amid Claims of Plagiarism

2/25/2010 Oh No They Didn't

2/25/2010 Gene Simmons' Kid is a...

2/25/2010 Geeks of Doom: Nick Simmons Accused of Plagiarism for Incarnate

2/26/2010 CNN Go.com: Gene Simmons' Son Accused of Bleach Plagiarism

2/27/2010 Magnetic Rose: Guest Post - Fans Accuse Nick Simmons of Plagiarizing Bleach

3/1/2010 Nick Simmons Releases Statement, Takes No Responsibility

3/1/2010 New York Times: Comic Book Creator Accused of Plagiarism

3/2/2010 Magnetic Rose: Nick Simmons Statement on Plagiarism Accusations Claims “Homage” to Bleach Artist

3/2/2010 Naked Singularity: What You Give To a Thief is Stolen

3/2/2010 Topless Robot: Nick Simmons Responds...

3/2/2010 ICv2: Nonapology apology

3/2/2010 Icarus: Falsehoods and Wishful Thinking

Some Legal News Articles

3/3/2010 Nick Simmons, the Internet Mob, and Copyright

3/3/2010 Understanding Incarnate and Comic Book Plagiarism

Miscellaneous Links

Encyclopedia Dramatica: Incarnate

Facebook Group: Calling For Legal Action Against Nick Simmons for Plagiarism

RESPONSE FROM INCARNATE'S PUBLISHERS



ETA 03/01/2010: Mr. Simmons' statement from his publicist here.

“Like most artists I am inspired by work I admire. There are certain similarities between some of my work and the work of others. This was simply meant as an homage to artists I respect, and I definitely want to apologize to any Manga fans or fellow Manga artists who feel I went too far. My inspirations reflect the fact that certain fundamental imagery is common to all Manga. This is the nature of the medium.

I am a big fan of Bleach, as well as other Manga titles. And I am certainly sorry if anyone was offended or upset by what they perceive to be the similarity between my work and the work of artists that I admire and who inspire me.”
 
 
Current Mood: ticked off
 
 
( Read 2230 commentsLeave a comment )
(Anonymous) on February 25th, 2010 08:40 am (UTC)
http://i47.tinypic.com/10n976e.jpg

Now, is it just me, or is that an Exequias in Zangetsu's threads?
Lily: Penetration :3foodisverygood on February 25th, 2010 08:44 am (UTC)
Saw that. It's like a cross between Ashido's mask and the tree dude Rukia fought in Zangetsu's pimp coat >>"
(Anonymous) on February 25th, 2010 08:51 am (UTC)
Speaking of pimp coats...

http://i45.tinypic.com/4na05.jpg

Nonpachi in Ichigo's bankai coat bastardized with some sort of military uniform that I can't figure out the origin of...?
Inoue Orihime 井上織姫: [anxious] i never realized...lastcomfort on February 25th, 2010 08:54 am (UTC)
It seems like he's even got Kenpachi's personality too D:
➥《Nocturnal Flying Mammal》✈: ichigo NO Ukawree on February 25th, 2010 08:44 am (UTC)
あぁ!! good god, does this kid have a single thing in his work that isn't ripped off of something else??
(Anonymous) on February 25th, 2010 08:52 am (UTC)
Good question. I'll wager the fact that all the heads and torsos that are about a size thinner than they should be could be considered his.
➥《Nocturnal Flying Mammal》✈: LESBIANS!kawree on February 25th, 2010 08:55 am (UTC)
dude, CLAMP's been doing that for years. XD
(Anonymous) on February 25th, 2010 08:56 am (UTC)
The difference is that at least their other proportions compensate. ):
➥《Nocturnal Flying Mammal》✈: hades GTFOkawree on February 25th, 2010 09:00 am (UTC)
heh, yeah, i was mostly kidding. the disproportionately long torsos and limbs like in Holic and TRC works for CLAMP because it's consistent through the whole work; Simmons is obviously unable to draw proper proportions when he's not tracing the image, and so the bad anatomy sticks out.
(Anonymous) on February 25th, 2010 09:03 am (UTC)
Haahahaha yeah, when you look at the work as a whole it's a complete clusterfuck. I just want to take that freaking gorgeous cover art and put it on a better series.
➥《Nocturnal Flying Mammal》✈: hitsu senses a disturbance in the forcekawree on February 25th, 2010 09:23 am (UTC)
hopefully Chen will be doing just that.
(Anonymous) on February 27th, 2010 07:09 pm (UTC)
hi
hey his lack of porportian and some messed up drawings
Inoue Orihime 井上織姫: [worry] that dresslastcomfort on February 25th, 2010 08:51 am (UTC)
Oh my goodness...

I mean...I will say I like the shot of the shadow in the background, but...

...this just makes this guy's credibility go down liek whoa ): If he had future as a comic artist, it may be very compromised by now. Or maybe he can use that reputation to make him "edgy" with all the publicity this may get? IDK. I'm not good at putting a spin on things.

Still...even the more minor characters! Kenpachi, at least, is iconic.
(Anonymous) on February 25th, 2010 08:54 am (UTC)
From the looks of the comic that one's shaping up to be a more major character. I was mostly skimming to stare at the art, admittedly.

But, yeah, it's an unholy mashup of Kubotite, Hellsing and bad anatomy ambushing you from behind the potted Anubis.
Inoue Orihime 井上織姫: [worry] half hiddenlastcomfort on February 25th, 2010 08:57 am (UTC)
Oh really? Well, the fact still stands, I suppose. That's really too bad. Thinking about all the other people who put their time and energy in this, too. To think this could have started out as like doodling or something? I mean, sharing something like this with friends is fine, or just having it on DA for fun, but the fact that he's selling it...

...ah well, that point has been said many times on this post XD;; Still, it's too bad. For a lot of reasons. I am interested to hear what Gene is going to have to say.
(Anonymous) on February 25th, 2010 09:02 am (UTC)
Hell, if this were a doujin people would still rag on the tracing, but it would just be making fun of/smacking a dumb fanartist and folks would read it for the luls.

I think the one point that still makes me scratch my head is still how the hell no one caught this for so long. Then again, I hadn't even heard of this comic before yesterday.
Inoue Orihime 井上織姫: [surprise] mmmm?lastcomfort on February 25th, 2010 09:04 am (UTC)
True fact. But then again, we do see fanartists all the time just tracing original works and recoloring it, but...yeah, that doesn't hurt anyone. Here there is an obvious issue of integrity when he is playing off this work as completely his own. Even if he had acknowledged he was inspired by the other works, I would feel a bit better.

Y-yeah...well...neither have I. But maybe, ironically, they just don't know the market that well. I mean, they're selling an Americanized Manga, right? But that doesn't necessarily mean all the higher ups and whatnot read existing comics from Japan. I wouldn't be able to notice the One Piece things in there sine I don't follow it. If I didn't follow Bleach, I wouldn't notice No!patch Kenpachi and Blonde!Hime.
(Anonymous) on February 25th, 2010 09:08 am (UTC)
That would be one interesting acknowledgement. "And I was inspired by the characters, poses, backgrounds, dialogue, storylines and elements of Bleach, Hellsing, Vampire Hunter D, NANA, Dogs: Bullets & Carnage, Deadman Wonderland, One Piece and more! Have a nice day y'all."

I guess if they're a primarily comics-geared company (haven't heard of Radical in relation to manga business at all), that might be understandable...
(no subject) - lastcomfort on February 25th, 2010 09:13 am (UTC) (Expand)
Using stars as icecubes in my moonlight punchkaelstra on February 25th, 2010 09:21 am (UTC)
I love how the tree in that shot is fucking lopsided.

It's obvious Nick doesn't really have much talent. I mean, he's got some, but no training, or discipline, and he shouldn't be doing a fucking comic.
Inoue Orihime 井上織姫: [determined] i will finish thislastcomfort on February 25th, 2010 09:30 am (UTC)
It's not even that that bothers me, so much as the audacity of knowing you completely copied something else and feeling that it is okay if you can get away with it. If he was sharing it with friends, but he's selling it. That's illegal.

I mean, I know I'm preaching to the choir here...
Using stars as icecubes in my moonlight punchkaelstra on February 25th, 2010 09:48 am (UTC)
Amen. It really bothers me.

It also makes me think he must take a lot of comic fans for complete and utter fools. Did he think no one would notice? Seriously?
Inoue Orihime 井上織姫: [confused] drrp?lastcomfort on February 25th, 2010 09:50 am (UTC)
Yeah...I've got no theory for that one. It's not like Bleach is some underground comic. He's obviously into anime/manga if he was able to "reference" a few different series, so he had to know that these were the popular ones.
Toushi [黒崎一護]: chaaargepimpcoatbankai on February 25th, 2010 08:52 am (UTC)
Plus the whole set up for that scene just SCREAMS Chrno Crusade to me.
(Anonymous) on February 25th, 2010 08:55 am (UTC)
A. Icon = adorable.

B. I haven't read Chrno Crusade in so long I don't remember a thing, unfortunately!
tamzin: sanadareadshorrorstoryconquistadora on February 25th, 2010 09:58 am (UTC)
LOL Looks like Zangetsu picked up some random hollow mask lying around HM and put it on XD Horrible horrible...