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24 February 2010 @ 11:43 pm
Gene Simmons' Son Plagiarizing Bleach?  
Is Bleach being copied and passed off as an original American comic called Incarnate by Nick Simmons, son of Gene Simmons?



note to non-Bleach readers: all the pictures are labeled, but generally, BLEACH is in black-and-white while INCARNATE is in color.

Side by side from cuddl.


Original pages.


Overlay by aizome


Leftmost: Bleach
Center: Incarnate
Rightmost: overlay (thank you shaolin)


This batch: thanks, cuddl, lackasexical, & CorpusDei@BA.


Merger by aizome


Thanks shaolin & stealthhuman for this comparison.
Left: Bleach
Right: Incarnate


lackasexical for this overlay below.


Incarnate


Bleach


Overlay by lackasexical


Thanks cuddl


Overlay by lackasexical


Thanks cuddl


Overlay by Rubine on Encyclopedia Dramatica


From cuddl:


Leftmost: Incarnate
Rightmost: Bleach
Center Two: overlays by shaolin


Thanks cuddl


Bleach, Bleach, Bleach


Overlay from lackasexical


cuddl


Overlay by lackasexical


From cuddl
Left: Incarnate
Right: Bleach


Overlay by lackasexical


From foodisverygood
Incarnate


Bleach


From jenny_jade

Left: Bleach
Right: Incarnate


Left: Incarnate
Right: Bleach


Overlay by lackasexical


Thanks cuddl


Overlay from Rubine at Encyclopedia Dramatica


Top Color: Incarnate
Bottom B&W: Bleach


Overlay by lackasexical


Incarnate


Overlay by lackasexical


From jenny_jade
Bleach


Incarnate


Overlay by kawree


Alternate overlay by lackasexical


overlay and pics from lackasexical.
Left: Bleach
Right: Incarnate




Comparison from stealthhuman.

Left: Bleach
Right: Incarnate


Incarnate


fanart of Bleach character Grimmjow by DeviantArtist rae here. Artist site..


Overlay from Rubine at Encyclopedia Dramatica


Thanks anon for this one.

Left: Incarnate
Right: ChaosVoid @ DeviantArt's S T A L K E R


This overlay was anonymously delivered; for non-Bleach readers, the black haired girl visible is Rukia Kuchiki from Bleach; the blonde girl would be Incarnate's.



Incarnate


Bleach


Bleach


Incarnate


NOTES

Many of these Bleach scans were cleaned by the beautiful people at JU-NI. You can visit them here.

A plaintive cry from Wikipedia-ers here who would like to remind people to strive for neutrality.

para_xylene wanted to point out that there are some very specific plot things that seem similar to whitewolf's VAMPIRE: THE MASQUERADE game, so you can take a look and see.

Hellsing comparison posts linked here here and here. and another one from stealthhuman.

More comparison posts linked here regarding the possible plagiarism of One Piece, Hellsing, Deadman Wonderland, Death Note, Naruto, Lupin the 3rd, Neon Genesis Evangelion, The Sandman, Full Metal Alchemist, Wolf's Rain, Death Note, and YGO.

Another comparison post with a DeviantArt by Robbin Graves. from cuddl

RE: THE MOVIE POSTER SIMILARITY. eironoforos would like to say that that picture is actually used by the people who were distributing Incarnate, and not evidence of plagiarism on Nick Simmons' part. Please don't discuss it as such; thank you!

An anon dropped this gift off from Nick Simmons' favorites on DA.

jimsupreme would like to point out the following...

i've been following the whole nick Simmons/incarnate thing for months and was probably the first to mention his ripping off of bleach, hellsing, one piece etc. please feel free to link to my Youtube Show Geeking Out episode # 89 where I first reviewed the book # 98 where I reviewed # 2 #98 where I reviewed #2.

I contacted Radical , Viz and dark horse months ago about this but, at least something is finally being done...
.

Lastly, any other BLEACH manga pics in the thread that weren't credited are probably me; but of course, they are all drawn by KUBO TITE.


Incarnate information



CONTACT INFORMATION

Incarnate's Publishers: RADICAL COMICS
Los Angeles (Corporate Headquarters)
Radical Publishing
7421 Beverly Blvd
Los Angeles, CA 90036
P: 323-874-4400
F: 323-874-4422
E: radical@radicalcomics.com

VIZ COMICS, the North American license holders for Bleach.
Mailing Address:
VIZ Media, LLC
P.O. BOX 77010
San Francisco, CA 94107

Internet Contact Form (no email addy):

http://www.viz.com/about/contact/contact.php

SHUEISHA, the JP publishers for Bleach.

Shueisha Inc
5-10, 2-Chome, Hitotsubashi, Chiyoda-Hu
101 80 05, Tokyo
JAPAN (NIPPON)

telephone:
+81 (3) 3230 6379

website URL:
http://www.shueisha.co.jp/

editor: Hinoshi Yamazahi

http://www.penrose-press.com/idd/card.php?INDEX=PUB2338&SUBJECT=ALL

Thanks nomoreprinces for the JP contact info.

For the record, I don't care that it's Gene Simmons' son; however, if they're going to try to use some musician's name as a way to sell work that may be copied from another author, I might as well use that same name to gather some attention to such potential copying. Hence the sensationalist subject title.

I'm not the one who caught this; I'm just passing on this message. It came from this original GAMEFAQS thread: by superbot400 here.

It then went to Bleach Asylum; thank you CorpusDei from this thread for many of your first comparisons.

ETA 2: Wow there are a lot of comments in a very short amount of time.
ETA 3: OKAY, if you still have comparison pics, go ahead and post them in the comments. Please do NOT, however, encourage any conspiracies or encourage any harassment... we don't need this comm to get wrapped up in that. You guys are still Bleachness, be classy. Read _debbiechan_'s comment here for clarification.
ETA 4: More pictures.... looks like the Ulquihime scenes are a big hit with Mr. Simmons.
ETA 5: Pictures are going up as I get them in. Thanks people.
ETA 6: KUBO-SENSEI does in fact know.
ETA #9000: Everyone, please stop saying Mr. Nick Simmons replied on Facebook; that one is almost undoubtedly a troll.

KUBO-SENSEI'S TWEETS

From tobu_ishi right here.

So, uh, from yesterday night until this morning, there've been an amazing number of messages from overseas fans along the lines of "There's a manga imitating BLEACH in America!" Well, I had a look at the site and I don't understand English that well, but I think what's written there is something like "It's a manga drawn by Gene Simmons' son, Nick Simmons."

-and-

The fact that Gene Simmon's son is a manga-ka disturbs me more than whether he's really copying or not.

Translator's note: (There have been a lot of mistranslations due to Kubo's use of the word mitai, which means 'something like', but which is a homonym for the differently written word meaning 'want to see'. If he's interested in reading Incarnate, he hasn't said so. Also, a lot of people have translated ki ni naru ('disturbed/worried') as 'interested' (ki ni iru). Figured I'd try and help sort that out.)

FINAL ETA:

Everyone in Bleach fandom who has stepped up to devote time to putting up comparisons and panel-matching to the original work, I really appreciate it. You guys are wonderful -- flat out. To everyone who is keeping a cool head through this incredibly frustration stuff, thank you.

Please cut the conspiracy talk here on Bleachness --- we're not an anonymous troll site, okay, no plotting here --- and no speculation of nasty fates for Mr. Simmons. Seriously. Do not feed trolls, either.

To all the people who ended up on Bleachness for the first time ever or in a very long time, a friendly welcome and please enjoy your stay.


A nice timeline here of the entire business from lightina_hime

Round-up of News Stories:

2/25/2010 Anime News Network: Incarnate Halted over Alleged Bleach Plagiarism

2/25/2010 Comic Book Resources: Radical Halts Nick Simmons' Incarnate Amid Claims of Plagiarism

2/25/2010 Oh No They Didn't

2/25/2010 Gene Simmons' Kid is a...

2/25/2010 Geeks of Doom: Nick Simmons Accused of Plagiarism for Incarnate

2/26/2010 CNN Go.com: Gene Simmons' Son Accused of Bleach Plagiarism

2/27/2010 Magnetic Rose: Guest Post - Fans Accuse Nick Simmons of Plagiarizing Bleach

3/1/2010 Nick Simmons Releases Statement, Takes No Responsibility

3/1/2010 New York Times: Comic Book Creator Accused of Plagiarism

3/2/2010 Magnetic Rose: Nick Simmons Statement on Plagiarism Accusations Claims “Homage” to Bleach Artist

3/2/2010 Naked Singularity: What You Give To a Thief is Stolen

3/2/2010 Topless Robot: Nick Simmons Responds...

3/2/2010 ICv2: Nonapology apology

3/2/2010 Icarus: Falsehoods and Wishful Thinking

Some Legal News Articles

3/3/2010 Nick Simmons, the Internet Mob, and Copyright

3/3/2010 Understanding Incarnate and Comic Book Plagiarism

Miscellaneous Links

Encyclopedia Dramatica: Incarnate

Facebook Group: Calling For Legal Action Against Nick Simmons for Plagiarism

RESPONSE FROM INCARNATE'S PUBLISHERS



ETA 03/01/2010: Mr. Simmons' statement from his publicist here.

“Like most artists I am inspired by work I admire. There are certain similarities between some of my work and the work of others. This was simply meant as an homage to artists I respect, and I definitely want to apologize to any Manga fans or fellow Manga artists who feel I went too far. My inspirations reflect the fact that certain fundamental imagery is common to all Manga. This is the nature of the medium.

I am a big fan of Bleach, as well as other Manga titles. And I am certainly sorry if anyone was offended or upset by what they perceive to be the similarity between my work and the work of artists that I admire and who inspire me.”
 
 
Current Mood: ticked off
 
 
Inoue Orihime 井上織姫: [flail] omg im sorry ishida-kun! lastcomfort on February 25th, 2010 03:18 am (UTC)
UPDATE FROM KUBO
I don't follow twitter, but a friend of mine linked it, and he's all ready talking about this.

「正直似てるかどうかより、ジーン・シモンズの息子が漫画家ってことのほうが気になる…。」

"I don't know whether or not I should seriousl feel uneasy about Gene Simmon's Son the Manga-ka..."

Is about what he's saying.
Kylara karenai on February 25th, 2010 03:19 am (UTC)
Re: UPDATE FROM KUBO
Yeah, I'm updating the post with this (I was just IMmed about this).

She said he didn't know who Gene Simmons was, LOL.
(Anonymous) on February 25th, 2010 03:21 am (UTC)
Re: UPDATE FROM KUBO
so kubo does already know about this. he doesn't know whether *he* should feel uneasy? he's done nothing wrong!
Inoue Orihime 井上織姫: [alert] yes sir! lastcomfort on February 25th, 2010 03:23 am (UTC)
Re: UPDATE FROM KUBO
Oh Kubo XDDD Well, 気になる is definitely "to feel uneasy", that was what first caught my attention.

This is also of note, too:

「なんか、昨日の夜から今朝にかけて、すごい数の海外のファンから「アメリカにBLEACHの真似をしてるマンガがある!」的な返信が入ってた。で、サイト見たら英語よくわかんないけど、どうも「ジーン・シモンズの息子のニック・シモンズが描いてるマンガだ」みたいなことが描いてあった。」

How just found out about it the other night, poor guy doesn't understand English very well, though XD But he wants to see the manga, I believe.

I can't imagine what it must feel like for him, though. I'm sure he sees fan art all the time, but this is something completely different.
(Anonymous) on February 25th, 2010 03:24 pm (UTC)
Re: UPDATE FROM KUBO
Actually, he doesn't say he wants to see the manga, he basically says "apparently it was something about a manga Gene Simmons' son is writing."

Even for rough translations these are pretty bad, I'm sorry to say.
r0ck3tsci3ntist - sorry, kidding: art theft r0ck3tsci3ntist on February 25th, 2010 03:36 am (UTC)
Re: UPDATE FROM KUBO
He may not understand that this guy has resources and is selling this work for profit. And even when he does, he may not chose to act on it. Viz, the American publisher may be another matter though. It all depends on if it is worth their while or impacting them in some way.

I think as fans though, it's important that we say our say - as long as everyone acts intelligently.
Inoue Orihime 井上織姫: [resigned] this is goodbye lastcomfort on February 25th, 2010 03:39 am (UTC)
Yeah, copyright laws in Japan are definitely not the same as over here. I do hope Viz does choose to act on it, though.

Seriously, though, I feel bad for him ):
Sir Sadly "the Thunder" Grove: tony stark bitches sadlygrove on February 25th, 2010 04:04 am (UTC)
Rough translation
「なんか、昨日の夜から今朝にかけて、すごい数の海外のファンから「アメリカにBLEACHの真似をしてるマンガがある!」的な返信が入ってた。で、サイト見たら英語よくわかんないけど、どうも「ジーン・シモンズの息子のニック・シモンズが描いてるマンガだ」みたいなことが描いてあった。

"Last night and this morning, an amazing number of foreign (non-Japanese) fans have been replying 'In America there is a manga imitating BLEACH!'. So, even though I don't understand English very well, I looked at the website. I would quite like to see the manga that Nick Simmons--Gene Simmons' son--is drawing."
Kylara karenai on February 25th, 2010 04:06 am (UTC)
Re: Rough translation
I don't think Kubo-sensei quite understands that someone is selling this as their original work =_= either that or he's the NICEST MAN ALIVE.
Sir Sadly "the Thunder" Grove sadlygrove on February 25th, 2010 04:09 am (UTC)
Re: Rough translation
I think it's just ingrained Japanese politeness and saving face. For the moment.
manonlechat: red cheeked matsumoto manonlechat on February 25th, 2010 04:14 am (UTC)
Re: Rough translation
This. The response sounds very Japanese polite to me.
twistedsheets10: walder frey is eaten by zombies twistedsheets10 on February 26th, 2010 02:06 am (UTC)
Re: Rough translation
I'm seconding this. That, or he's not saying anything pending legal proceedings.
Marie proglution on February 25th, 2010 04:28 am (UTC)
Re: Rough translation
Agreeing with sadlygrove - I mean, you have shots up at the top that show this is a published work that's ripping him off and he's probably just trying to keep things calm, hence the random tweets that followed, LOL.

Sorry for taking forever on that rought, rough translation. >>;
Kylara karenai on February 25th, 2010 04:39 am (UTC)
Re: Rough translation
No no thank you for letting me know.. and Kubo is so cute.
Silvia nightshade_ave on February 25th, 2010 05:45 am (UTC)
Re: Rough translation
Even if he's just being typical!Japanese!polite, he's freaking adorable. Oh Kubo we love you so. <3
(Anonymous) on February 25th, 2010 12:25 pm (UTC)
Re: Rough translation
Then again, who needs to be hostile when you have thousands upon thousands of screaming, rabid (yes we DO foam at the mouth), wild fans that are willing to lynch him FOR you? Just sayin. :3
peca_06 peca_06 on February 25th, 2010 08:34 am (UTC)
Re: Rough translation
Man, you just want to hold him, cuddle him and keeping away from evil like an innocent little boy T_____________T. Someone must tell him it is not a positive thing, it is not a Doujinshi or anything like that and this person is profiting from his hard honest work *sigh*, he is so cute/nice though :)
Liger liger_null on February 25th, 2010 02:53 pm (UTC)
Re: Rough translation
"I don't know whether or not I should seriously feel uneasy about Gene Simmon's Son the Manga-ka...""

I think he's basically saying that he fully realizes Simmons is a no-talent hack, and that he just doesn't consider him a threat. After all, this shitstorm just puts Bleach further into the spotlight and will only serve as free mainstream publicity for Kubo's work. He's "innocent" like a fox.

A cuddly fox:D
peca_06 peca_06 on February 25th, 2010 04:45 pm (UTC)
Re: Rough translation
That is definitely a better angle to that XDDD and it changes things (I was half asleep last night anyway XD). Any kind of publicity is good publicity. I did think that this incident would probably make Bleach even more popular as a result... Yeah, he is no real threat after all, but we get emotional about it lol.
We should not underestimate Kubo's cunning abilities (he came up with Aizen after all ) ^_^... Aww, a cuddly fox indeed XDD. Thanks <3
Diet Punk: 今更, イングリッシュで 選択する lennan on February 25th, 2010 05:55 pm (UTC)
Re: Rough translation
The translation above is a little off at the very end; he does in fact understand what's being said, just that he managed to get that much out of it somehow despite his handicap in English.

I think the reason why he's been so laid back in his twitter posts regarding it is because he understands that there are authorities who will take care of this and that he's big enough of a name and has done his comic long enough that getting in a tizzy will not do well for him? Plus he knows that if he feels rage, then so will the Japanese fans and he wants to quell the masses so to speak.
Diet Punk: 今更, イングリッシュで 選択する lennan on February 25th, 2010 05:58 pm (UTC)
Re: Rough translation
It's sort of like in Flame of Recca, where Recca fights that copying warrior who copies his own flame and the flame dragon who he's fighting with/attempting to control gives him the riddle about how to defeat someone who copies someone else. The answer being, only the original creator knows the outcome of a story, so the only thing left to do is to keep on writing. Or something like that.
marheavenangel marheavenangel on February 27th, 2010 04:58 am (UTC)
Re: Rough translation
Personally...I think Kubo is smart.

After all, it's best to be neutral until all of this is settled.

Cooler heads prevail.

Besides, it's hard to sympathize for that art-stealing jerk when the mangaka he stole from is being completely nice.

I know people who hate anime-told me they are gonna side with Viz and Kubo-in hopes that they sue N. Simmons butt.
(Deleted comment)
♀*La Muerte Chiquita*♀ la_kalaka on February 25th, 2010 06:05 am (UTC)
Re: UPDATE FROM KUBO
And that makes me go more angry on hius behalf, this man doesn't deserve THIS!
hinazuke hinazuke on February 26th, 2010 07:17 pm (UTC)
Re: UPDATE FROM KUBO
I'm not fluent so I'm not claiming these translations to be more accurate but I felt there were few things left unsaid.

「正直似てるかどうかより、ジーン・シモンズの息子が漫画家ってことのほうが気になる…。」

"More than the copying, I'm concerned about Gene Simmons' son's ability as a mangaka."

「なんか、昨日の夜から今朝にかけて、すごい数の海外のファンから「アメリカにBLEACHの真似をしてるマンガがある!」的な返信が入ってた。で、サイト見たら英語よくわかんないけど、どうも「ジーン・シモンズの息子のニック・シモンズが描いてるマンガだ」みたいなことが描いてあった。」

It seems I've been getting a lot of messages from my foreign fans with words of "An American comic is copying Bleach!". From looking at the site, I don't really understand the English, but it looks like it talks about "a manga written by Gene Simmons' son, Nick Simmons." [The "mitai" in this case doesn't mean he wants to see it, but that it is something he's taken note of.]